Metroid: Discussion.

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Poochy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:30 pm

Eiron wrote:To Blue: Same here.

To Prime haters: I'm going to pretend I didn't hear those comments.

Just like I tried to pretend that the Prime games weren't a shallow, Americanized transition of a beloved, Gunpei Yokoi-blessed series into 3D that were designed to cater mainly to FPS fans who hadn't touched a Nintendo console in years.

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Eiron on Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:46 pm

The number of things wrong in that sentance is disturbing. This is not the place, nor the way to argue about a game's quality.

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Smashy B on Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:23 am

Uh, guyz. Metroid Prime is a first person adventure not a first person shooter. Therefore, it doesn't need two sticks to aim. Durr.

/discussion

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Spontaneous Combustion on Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:14 am

And even if the Prime games were adventure games, the Metroid Prime 1 & 2 controls were certainly the best console FPS controls before Prime 3 came out.

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Poochy on Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:55 am

smashbro wrote:Uh, guyz. Metroid Prime is a first person adventure not a first person shooter. Therefore, it doesn't need two sticks to aim. Durr.

/discussion

I really used to believe that they were first-person adventures. I thought Metroid Prime was a fun, if less than worthy entry in the series, but even I eventually had to admit that it was more or less a FPS. So it had adventure elements. The original Duke Nuke 'em had adventure elements. Does anyone call that a first-person adventure? And then there's the inarguable fact that yes, Metroid Prime had a much greater focus on shooting than previous Metroid games. The Space Pirates were completely changed from the more monstrous, laser-beam eyed creatures that they were in Super Metroid into armor-plated humanoid freaks loaded with weaponry. Americanized. While Samus reminisces about her burdened past in Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion, she shows no such weakness at the end of Metroid Prime, instead choosing to stare blankly, not a tear in her eye, at the burning, crumbling ruins of an ancient Chozo civilization---yes, Chozos, the people that raised her. Americanized. The Metroid Prime team was made up of largely of people who worked on highly overrated first person shooters for Acclaim and various other low-life, third-rate American software companies and had no right putting their grubby, FPS-loving hands on Metroid, a series created by a man who shat more ingenuity than Retro Studios has ever been able to muster despite their hundreds of over-payed, highly skilled artists. That Nintendo ever gave Retro Studios permission to create more Prime games after the original is something I will hold to my dying breath against them.

Maybe it's just a dream, but I hope one day everyone on this planet realizes that there are some things that the Japanese do a hell of a lot better than everyone else, and, for most genres, video games are one of those things.

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Spontaneous Combustion on Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:29 am

Someone with moderator powers needs to split this into a separate Metroid topic.

And shit just got real.

Poochy wrote:
I really used to believe that they were first-person adventures. I thought Metroid Prime was a fun, if less than worthy entry in the series, but even I eventually had to admit that it was more or less a FPS. So it had adventure elements. The original Duke Nuke 'em had adventure elements. Does anyone call that a first-person adventure?
I heavily disagree. Duke Nukem is a shooter with adventure elements. Metroid Prime is an adventure game with shooter elements. There's way less gunfight against pirates than exploration and adventure.


Poochy wrote:
And then there's the inarguable fact that yes, Metroid Prime had a much greater focus on shooting than previous Metroid games. The Space Pirates were completely changed from the more monstrous, laser-beam eyed creatures that they were in Super Metroid into armor-plated humanoid freaks loaded with weaponry. Americanized. While Samus reminisces about her burdened past in Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion, she shows no such weakness at the end of Metroid Prime, instead choosing to stare blankly, not a tear in her eye, at the burning, crumbling ruins of an ancient Chozo civilization---yes, Chozos, the people that raised her. Americanized.
...excuse me, what? When did the pirates actually fire lasers from their eyes? They fired those lasers from their claws. The pirates have always been some kind of insectoid/reptile/lobster aliens with weaponry. The Metroid Prime series, especially Prime 2, did a perfect job of turning them 3D.
And...what, again? Why should Samus cry when looking at burning Chozo ruins? Have we seen Samus ever cry in the games, even in the 2D ones?
Samus is not like she doesn't have emotions, they are just a little unfamiliar to her. Quite logical, considering she was raised by an alien race.


Poochy wrote:
The Metroid Prime team was made up of largely of people who worked on highly overrated first person shooters for Acclaim and various other low-life, third-rate American software companies and had no right putting their grubby, FPS-loving hands on Metroid, a series created by a man who shat more ingenuity than Retro Studios has ever been able to muster despite their hundreds of over-payed, highly skilled artists. That Nintendo ever gave Retro Studios permission to create more Prime games after the original is something I will hold to my dying breath against them.
Maybe it's just a dream, but I hope one day everyone on this planet realizes that there are some things that the Japanese do a hell of a lot better than everyone else, and, for most genres, video games are one of those things.
Oh come on. Still insisting it's a FPS?
The first person perspective brought a lot of immersion into the series. With first person perspective, it all becomes a whole lot more realistic. You're not the camera man watching at the character. You are the character. And while a third person view fits Mario and Zelda much better, it's certainly not the same with Metroid.

And the last part...there are so many things wrong in that statement. Western game studios make a lot of good stuff. Actually they have done a lot more innovation than the Japanese lately. (Portal. World of Goo. No other examples are needed.)

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Eiron on Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:40 am

I'm rather against the idea of creating a Metroid thread just because someone wants to argue about how bad the recent games are. However, if you guys are hell bent over this, let a mod make a new thread.

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Spontaneous Combustion on Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:41 am

Eiron wrote:I'm rather against the idea of creating a Metroid thread just because someone wants to argue about how bad the recent games are. However, if you guys are hell bent over this, let a mod make a new thread.

...doesn't Metroid deserve a thread just for its awesomeness?

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Blue Madness on Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:44 am

That's a point.

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Metroid: Discussion.

Post  SurgePox on Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:48 am

Just splitting topics, if any of you want to construct a better first post I will happily put it in.

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Poochy on Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:01 pm

Spontaneous Combustion wrote:

...excuse me, what? When did the pirates actually fire lasers from their eyes? They fired those lasers from their claws. The pirates have always been some kind of insectoid/reptile/lobster aliens with weaponry. The Metroid Prime series, especially Prime 2, did a perfect job of turning them 3D.


A...perfect.....job. Yeaaaaaahhhh, uh, go play Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion and report back to me on how those sprites look.
You were right about the shooting from the claws part, way off about the weaponry, and they absolutely did not wear any kind of armor nor did they come in the genetically-engineered giant freak variety. And I'm supposed to believe that Super Metroid takes place after the Prime series? When did the Space Pirates become so advanced? Why would they harbor all this incredible technology on Tallon IV but go unarmed, unarmored on the planet Zebes where their sole purpose there seems to be to guard their ongoing Metroid research/their almighty leader, the Mother Brain.

No offense, but you're 16. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you didn't grow up with this series. I grew up with Mario. I grew up with Zelda. THOSE were games that made a near-perfect transition into 3D. Whatever you think of the American game industry, the sad truth is that most American game developers have way different priorities than the Japanese developers. One of the things that the Metroid series lost with Metroid Prime was it's stylistic sensibilities. Early Metroid games gave Samus (both in and out the armor) a detailed, but not overly-detailed anime/manga-inspired design. Metroid Prime shows less imagination in it's enemy designs and less inspiration in it's Samus design. More on Samus below.


And...what, again? Why should Samus cry when looking at burning Chozo ruins? Have we seen Samus ever cry in the games, even in the 2D ones?
Samus is not like she doesn't have emotions, they are just a little unfamiliar to her. Quite logical, considering she was raised by an alien race.

There are far too many things wrong with this paragraph. Let me break it down for you:

Why should Samus cry when looking at burning Chozo ruins?

Because Tallon IV is loaded with messages left by the Chozo, many of which pertain to the prophecies concerning her.
Samus has expressed both betrayal and gratitude in Metroid Fusion, and vengeful rage in Super Metroid. Why, after exploring all these ruins so reminiscent of her childhood home would she shed a tear as it burns to the ground? Are you SERIOUSLY asking that?

Samus is not like she doesn't have emotions, they are just a little unfamiliar to her. Quite logical, considering she was raised by an alien race.

Yeah, cuz them there gosh-darn aliens, they don't have no emotions! Anyone raised by a highly-advanced race of peace-seeking Chozos would be emotionally distant!

Read. The. F-ing. Manga. Please. It is the official, Nintendo-sanctioned backstory of Samus Aran.



Poochy wrote:
And the last part...there are so many things wrong in that statement. Western game studios make a lot of good stuff. Actually they have done a lot more innovation than the Japanese lately. (Portal. World of Goo. No other examples are needed.)

Those are great examples, but Retro Studios has no such background of innovation. It's a known fact that before they started Metroid Prime they were working three games: a football game, an adventure game, and some sort of Twisted Metal killer. Shigeru Miyamoto payed them a visit and he hated every single one of them. Retro Studios does not by a long shot represent the cream of the American crop---if and when they do make a non-Metroid game, I guaran-damn-tee you it will not be the next Portal or World of Goo.

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Eiron on Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:57 pm

Are. You. Fucking. Serious.

First of all. Not one of the Prime games could be called a FPS. You spend 90% of the game doing things OTHER than shooting. Even when you are in combat, most of the enemies are puzzles in and of themselves. I'm sorry, but if you seriously cannot understand this, then I have to question your basic undertanding of both genres. And did you fucking compare Prime to Duke Nuk'em?

On the Pirates. You HAVE noticed that they pretty much change appearance in every title? They have maintained their grotesque nature throughout the Prime series, and your dislike for their use of technology is nonsensical. An advanced alien race bent is going to beat against their armor clad enemies with their fists? No. EVER SINCE THE BEGINING, the pirates have been using Metroids as bio weapons, so your assertion that their genetic modification programs dont fit wont fly either.

As for the quality of Retro Studios, you've got a lot of gall saying that they've made no notable contributions before the Prime series. Along with the companies you've mentioned, staff members came from a wide variety of noteable development studios, including Square Enix. Their was no catering to any genre. As for the other projects that were canned, that was due to the abuse of power at the hands of Retro's first Project Manager, who, among other things, used development funds for a new hot tub. With his removal, Metroid Prime went off without a hitch. As for this mystical lack of quality that you see in the Prime games, and the lack of upholding Gunpei Yokoi's high standards, I'm tempted to say that you are blinded by the fact that the series had made any sort of deviation at all from the original formula. The game worlds in the Prime series is far more imersive than any previous installments, incorporates puzzle and retraversal aspects perfectly, and carries along the same emotional connotations. Retro being an American development team has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

On Samus. When the hell has their been any real character development for Samus outside of Fusion and the E-Manga? Where do you get off saying that she'd be brought to tears by anything?

Don't play the age card. It obviously hasn't proven your abilities in making logical arguments.

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Smashy B on Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:03 pm

How do you guys manage to take a simple side bicker and turn it into a full-blown debate?

Edit:
WTF, I'm in. There are a lot of things I can quote, but for simplicity, I'm keeping this short. Fuckin-A....

My stance on the FPS: I think it can be called an FPS, but really, from the ground up, Metroid and the Prime are Adventure games at heart, but FPS elements are thrown into the game to diversify. DIVERSIFY! the Primes are also (in a sense) puzzle games, in that you have those puzzle elements to move on to the next level. Call of Duty is a shooter. Metroid Prime(s) are FPAdventure games with an arm cannon (that being the FPS elements).

And why should Samus cry? She never speaks, so why cry? Yeah, sure she has those reason of the desruction of the Chozo, but it's not like she, let alone ANY Nintendo character to cry. Link never cries. When Link cries (or mario, but I'm sure he has once), then Samus can. She also didn't cry in the Metroid I or II when the baby Metroid
Spoiler:
got kidnapped by Ridley at the end of I and then sacrificed itself at then end of II.
If I'm not mistaken.


Poochy wrote:
The Metroid Prime team was made up of largely of people who worked on highly overrated first person shooters for Acclaim and various other low-life, third-rate American software companies and had no right putting their grubby, FPS-loving hands on Metroid, a series created by a man who shat more ingenuity than Retro Studios has ever been able to muster despite their hundreds of over-payed, highly skilled artists. That Nintendo ever gave Retro Studios permission to create more Prime games after the original is something I will hold to my dying breath against them.
Maybe it's just a dream, but I hope one day everyone on this planet realizes that there are some things that the Japanese do a hell of a lot better than everyone else, and, for most genres, video games are one of those things.
Metroid Prime was one of the greatest games on the Game Cube. To say that there was no innovation in the game is crap. The transition from a 3rd person side scroller to 1st person is innovative on it's own. Retro Studios did an amazing job with Primes 1, 2, and 3. The soundtrack to the game was amazing as well. The tracks were great in setting the atmosphere of the the different areas and the graphics of the Primes were just as good as some of the games you'd find on the higher powered systems of the generation. Oh, and don't forget the 3-d map. That thing is SO F-in helpful.

Yeah, sure, the Japanese are better at making characters with big eyes, tiny noses, and tiny mouths that inflate when they talk. To just go off and say the Japanese are better at making video games, you are completely ignoring many games on the other consoles. I'm a Nintendo fan boy at heart because Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Brawl, Frie Emblem, ect... all those games rule. But overall, the Japanese really only have us in RPG's, which are over done anyway, and then everything else is about even, except for American developers and FPS games. I'm not saying America is better at making video games, nor that Japan is. Seriously, you can call out a great game that was made in one of the countries, and then you'll find a counter argument, that being a game just as good in the specific genre.

Eiron wrote:Don't play the age card. It obviously hasn't proven your abilities in making logical arguments.
This. If you want an argument to be taken seriously, I wouldn't try that. But btw, Where. Could. I. Get. The. F-ing. Manga. ?.


I wrote so much more than I thought I would.

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  zach also rises on Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:06 pm

smashbro wrote:Uh, guyz. Metroid Prime is a first person adventure not a first person shooter. Therefore, it doesn't need two sticks to aim. Durr.

/discussion

/overrule

Fuck yes it did.

/discussionnotakebacks

Spontaneous Combustion wrote:And even if the Prime games were adventure games, the Metroid Prime 1 & 2 controls were certainly the best console FPS controls before Prime 3 came out.

Then you haven't played ANY console first person games you crazy mofo, because the one stick debacle made it the clunkiest I'd ever played.

Important note: I'm not even an FPS fan, so I guarantee this is no form of headshotkillah snobbery. But if I have to hold down a trigger button to aim my gun, something is dumb.


Last edited by zach also rises on Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Blue Madness on Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:10 pm

This is not the forum I knew and loved anymore...

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  zach also rises on Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:15 pm

I'm sorry to hear your allegiance is so easily shattered!

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Blue Madness on Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:17 pm

Whatever.

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Eiron on Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:07 pm

Suck it up Blue, Metroid is under attack!

Incidently, look what I found smashbro!

http://mdb.classicgaming.gamespy.com/?g=mzm&p=manga

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Blue Madness on Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:17 pm

I know it is, but I'll just let it be. This stuff is simply too childish and helpless for me to join. If I do, I will simply get flamed, get stressed, and get a bigger headache.

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  zach also rises on Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:25 pm

whoa.

whoooa.

...whooooooa.

I hope you guys don't actually take Metroid this seriously.

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Blue Madness on Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:26 pm

I don't. But seriously, this discussion IS pissing me off. Not because someone is saying bad things about Metroid, but simply because of it's utter and complete POINTLESSNESS. Therefore, I'm going "Screw it" mode until this has died...

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  SurgePox on Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:29 pm

I never should have created this thread.

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Blue Madness on Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:30 pm

It's not your fault, Surge. You're nice.

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  SurgePox on Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:35 pm

Thanks blue, but if the forum is stressing you then go do something else for a while, as this is nothing to get steamed up about.

maybe finish that miniboss battle :D

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

Post  Eiron on Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:37 pm

Eiron wrote:I'm rather against the idea of creating a Metroid thread just because someone wants to argue about how bad the recent games are. However, if you guys are hell bent over this, let a mod make a new thread.

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Re: Metroid: Discussion.

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