Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

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Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  zach also rises on Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:01 pm

This thread is for the enlightened disciples of Advance Wars to discuss what is and will always be the greatest turn based war strat game of all time. This may or may not involve making fun of Fire Emblem.

Discuss!


Last edited by zach also rises on Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:42 am; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  SurgePox on Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:13 pm

Amen to this, possibly the only strategy game I've ever played.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  zach also rises on Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:21 pm

Who was the best CO? Sturm doesn't count.

(The answer is Grit)

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  Serras-Kai on Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:52 pm

I've barely played Advance Wars, but I wish I had played it a bit more. It seemed a lot less troublesome with Fire Emblem, with the (significant for me) trade-off of not becoming attached to one's units (hence making them expendable) but all in all it seemed pretty good.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  zach also rises on Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:01 pm

To counter Serras-Kai's point about that "trade off", that inability to allow for a single unit's death (on pain of restarting the entire map) is exactly why I will never play another Fire Emblem!

I do get that hardcore gaming strat players enjoy playing the same level over (and over) and "perfecting" their game. Fire Emblem is great for those kinds of players!

But Advance Wars is actually fun.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  Serras-Kai on Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:04 pm

zach also rises wrote:To counter Serras-Kai's point about that "trade off", that inability to allow for a single unit's death (on pain of restarting the entire map) is exactly why I will never play another Fire Emblem!
A very good point. The trade off is one-sided, I'll admit.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  Smashy B on Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:23 am

zach also rises wrote:To counter Serras-Kai's point about that "trade off", that inability to allow for a single unit's death (on pain of restarting the entire map) is exactly why I will never play another Fire Emblem!

I do get that hardcore gaming strat players enjoy playing the same level over (and over) and "perfecting" their game. Fire Emblem is great for those kinds of players!

But Advance Wars is actually fun.
Aww. Is it that hard to keep your guys alive? Honestly, I don't like expending my guys. I like being able to have individuals in my army and not nameless faces that you don't get a chance to get to know. Supports and backstory and epilogues of the characters make Fire Emblem better than Advanced Wars on it's own, for me. And the gameplay is better because of strategizing while keeping enemies alive, the different classes add variety, and with the exception of Shadow Dragon, the stories don't suck.

Oh, and if you have to keep restarting a chapter, you...
a) are playing hard or maniac mode, or
b) or you just suck
You can't even replay a level over and over, unless you mean restarting. But fuck, I hate replaying the same level but it's not that hard to beat the map and move on.

I've played Advanced Wars on ROMs and have Days of Ruin for the DS... Hell, I doubt I'll ever go back to DoR, maybe I'll trade it in, make it worth something.

Ok, maybe I'm being harsh, but you bashing my Fire Emblem strikes a chord.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  Poochy on Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:45 am

smashbro wrote:
zach also rises wrote:To counter Serras-Kai's point about that "trade off", that inability to allow for a single unit's death (on pain of restarting the entire map) is exactly why I will never play another Fire Emblem!

I do get that hardcore gaming strat players enjoy playing the same level over (and over) and "perfecting" their game. Fire Emblem is great for those kinds of players!

But Advance Wars is actually fun.
Aww. Is it that hard to keep your guys alive? Honestly, I don't like expending my guys. I like being able to have individuals in my army and not nameless faces that you don't get a chance to get to know. Supports and backstory and epilogues of the characters make Fire Emblem better than Advanced Wars on it's own, for me. And the gameplay is better because of strategizing while keeping enemies alive, the different classes add variety, and with the exception of Shadow Dragon, the stories don't suck.

Oh, and if you have to keep restarting a chapter, you...
a) are playing hard or maniac mode, or
b) or you just suck
You can't even replay a level over and over, unless you mean restarting. But fuck, I hate replaying the same level but it's not that hard to beat the map and move on.

I've played Advanced Wars on ROMs and have Days of Ruin for the DS... Hell, I doubt I'll ever go back to DoR, maybe I'll trade it in, make it worth something.

Ok, maybe I'm being harsh, but you bashing my Fire Emblem strikes a chord.

Fire Emblem is teh sex.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  zach also rises on Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:07 pm

Man, I KNEW someone would be That Guy and pull the "cry moar noob you are bad at video gamez!" argument.

Strat games are about the only video games I AM good at. But yes, there were times when I would have to restart a map because a fucking archer died, and that sucks. Do not tell me there aren't maps in FE that aren't tricky to get past without the loss of a single unit!

Therein is the basic problem with Fire Emblem! The difficulty does not lie in completing a mission. You would literally have to be playing stone drunk with your face being devoured by piranhas to ever lose at a typical Fire Emblem map. The only difficulty in the game comes from completing each map without a single casualty, and that's just the kind of anal retentive gameplay I never need to touch.

"And the gameplay is better because of strategizing while keeping enemies alive, the different classes add variety, and with the exception of Shadow Dragon, the stories don't suck."

Nukka wha? The gameplay in Advance Wars is richer (and more challenging) than Fire Emblem. Your argument is weak because AW has way more different units than FE has classes, and COs to boot. Also strategizing while keeping enemies alive is part of every strat game, ever.

As far as the stories go, the Fire Emblems I have had contact with have had terrible stories and dialogue, but I can't really use that as an argument because Advance Wars is hardly Faulkner. For me personally, I find that Advance Wars completely owns its campiness and makes it fun, whereas FE games just sort of sit there, mired in bland dialogue and a paint-by-number fantasy adventure.

But it all comes down to gameplay, and that's where I bust out my double CO powers and wreck you, boo.

IMPORTANT NOTE: This debate is all in good fun! No one take this too seriously!

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  Eiron on Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:59 pm

Awwwww snap. I wasn't gonna, but now that smashbro's efforts are being broadcasted to the forum from the title...

Rawr. FE>AW.

So, your argument that Fire Emblem is only difficult if you try to keep everyone alive. That is not the case in Radiant Dawn AT ALL. Especially with Micaiah's party. You need to work your ass off to make sure those underleveled little whelps make it ten steps through those missions.

More stuff later.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  zach also rises on Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:12 pm

Then you can make a case for Radiant Dawn, I'll take your word for it, but that's not a case for Fire Emblem as a series. It's an exception!

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  Eiron on Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:17 pm

Granted. tongue

Having only played the console additions, I'm not the most qualified person for this argument. Sorry smashbro, I'll provide support when I can, but don't expect too much firepower from my side of the debating table.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  zach also rises on Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:28 pm

Gameplay wise, I don't even feel like Fire Emblem stands up against other strat games of any brand. The combat only goes as deep as what weapon you've equipped a dude with and having characters stand sort of close to other characters (if I remember right, because it has been a while, so I hope to be corrected). Even overlooking the fallacy of the perma-death, I feel like FE doesn't bring anything to the strat table over any other turn-based strategy game. It's just chillin in the middle of the pack.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  Gorblax on Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:42 am

HELL YES ADVANCE WARS. Zach, we should totally do a high five in midair while something explodes in the background.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  Eiron on Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:29 am

The ability to add stackable skill scrolls and other ability enhancing items increase strategy beyond the weapon triangle, and weapon depreciation means you have to manage your resources all the time. Things like terrain, elevation, and movement speed dictate how well and from where you can fight effectively.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  JGH27 on Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:27 pm

Gorblax wrote:HELL YES ADVANCE WARS. Zach, we should totally do a high five in midair while something explodes in the background.

What about an exploding FE?

Also, I am a big fan of Advance Wars (even if I'm weak like the Ukraine) but can't contibute much here as I've never played an FE game.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  SurgePox on Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:04 pm

Gorblax wrote:HELL YES ADVANCE WARS. Zach, we should totally do a high five in midair while something explodes in the background.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  Eiron on Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:15 pm

Who's who?

(I laughed my ass off, btw)

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  SurgePox on Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:28 pm

Just to clarify

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  Eiron on Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:19 pm

My new desktop.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  Smashy B on Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:31 pm

zach also rises wrote:IMPORTANT NOTE: This debate is all in good fun! No one take this too seriously!
OK, good. Still have to adress a couple of points though. Let's level out here...

zach also rises wrote:Man, I KNEW someone would be That Guy and pull the "cry moar noob you are bad at video gamez!" argument.
Sorry. Hugz?

Strat games are about the only video games I AM good at. But yes, there were times when I would have to restart a map because a fucking archer died, and that sucks. Do not tell me there aren't maps in FE that aren't tricky to get past without the loss of a single unit!

Therein is the basic problem with Fire Emblem! The difficulty does not lie in completing a mission. You would literally have to be playing stone drunk with your face being devoured by piranhas to ever lose at a typical Fire Emblem map. The only difficulty in the game comes from completing each map without a single casualty, and that's just the kind of anal retentive gameplay I never need to touch.

"And the gameplay is better because of strategizing while keeping enemies alive, the different classes add variety, and with the exception of Shadow Dragon, the stories don't suck."

Nukka wha? The gameplay in Advance Wars is richer (and more challenging) than Fire Emblem. Your argument is weak because AW has way more different units than FE has classes, and COs to boot. Also strategizing while keeping enemies alive is part of every strat game, ever.
I'm guessing you haven't played that far into any Fire Emblem game. If you have, it's probably Sacred Stones. FE:SS is easy even on hard mode. The other Fire Emblems I've played, (6 & 7, Path of Radiance, Radiant Dawn) Are more challenging, especially Radiant Dawn, as Eiron said. Radiant Dawn Part 1 starts you with under leveled against a lot of enemies. But then when you get to Ike's group in Part 3, it does get easier, provided you know what you are doing. FE6 falls into this as well, but I doubt anyone here has played this as it's Japan only and you need a ROM and a patch to play it. But it does the same thing in that it's pretty easy to lose a character should you poorly place them. A greater challenge comes from playing through in herd mode. Those are ass kickers, and yes, I don't like losing my guys.

As far as the stories go, the Fire Emblems I have had contact with have had terrible stories and dialogue, but I can't really use that as an argument because Advance Wars is hardly Faulkner. For me personally, I find that Advance Wars completely owns its campiness and makes it fun, whereas FE games just sort of sit there, mired in bland dialogue and a paint-by-number fantasy adventure.
Let me guess... You did play Sacred Stones. That one has a bad story. Actually, aside from the like-able characters, it's not a very good Fire Emblem game. Also hella short. You should play more into another Fire Emblem, because your argument really does not hold up with someone who know what FE is. I'm not saying you don't, but rather, you got jipped out of something good.

zach also rises wrote:Gameplay wise, I don't even feel like Fire Emblem stands up against other strat games of any brand. The combat only goes as deep as what weapon you've equipped a dude with and having characters stand sort of close to other characters (if I remember right, because it has been a while, so I hope to be corrected). Even overlooking the fallacy of the perma-death, I feel like FE doesn't bring anything to the strat table over any other turn-based strategy game. It's just chillin in the middle of the pack.
That's pretty much what you do in AW too, except the weapon the unit has is what he's stuck with. Amd if you ostracize any one of your units in that, it's Sayonara! But then again, it doesn't matter as much unless it was a costly aircraft or ship or whatever cause it's just a faceless unit.


Really, we could go back and forth arguing which one is better, but the two are really that similar even though they are both strategy games. Honestly, I think AW is more of a strategy game, than FE. Cause in FE you can focus solely on a few guys and level grind, which I find boring. But then again, you really need to use strategy for when you went to recruit a new character or save/visit a village about to be destroyed, and that happens more than every so often. But if you like starting fresh each time, bing bing AW is for you.

But FE is more of an RP, which is what I think fans and myself like having when we play an FE game. FE storyline uses a serious tone and typical RPG themes. AW storyline is more modern and a lot more corny. When I first play FEs, except SS, I'm more immersed in the stories, but with AW, I'm looking for the skip button. Course now, I know the stories anyway, so I just skip it anyway. But, personally, I really like having characters with a story and a life instead of being some nameless soldier. Also, not all FEs are or play the same, whereas AW feels like it does.

But really, it all comes down to what you prefer. I like leveling up characters and feel like I should keep them alive; a marker, or sense of progression. I like the other RPG elements that presents: managing weapons, skills, supports systems and bonuses, promotion. And I like a good story. I like FE a lot, but AW is good on it's own right. Wanna know why both are great? Because both are developed by Intelligence Systems.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  Eiron on Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:47 pm

And that folks, sums things up nicely.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  Kallin on Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:09 pm

My view is that both sides have good and excellent qualities. While FE has blahdeblah, AW has blahdiblah. If we want to look at Blah's interpretation of the Blahbian Theorem of Conceptual Disillusionment, you can tell that both suffer from blahblah but make up for it with an excess of BlahBlah. In the end it's nearly impossible to blah the blah in the blahs, so the debate is moot. There's only one solution.

Who's down for just getting a drink? You kids can play Brawl or whatever it is you do nowadays.

(Yeah, I had nothing meaningful to add. I'm just frighteningly sober.)

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  zach also rises on Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:35 am

I can't think of any way to reply to that except by changing the title again.

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

Post  Gorblax on Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:41 am

SurgePox wrote:Just to clarify

I get to be the shark? I'm flattered.

KNIIIIIIIFE EYYYYYYYE ATTAAAAAAAACK!!!!!

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Re: Advance Wars: For Awesome Dudes Only

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