The Whatever Thread

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:42 pm

Jonas is correct. Marriage predates Christianity. It also predates Judaism, from which Christianity evolved. smashbro, you are refferring only to the Judao-Christian concept of marriage. The concept of marriage (As the legal union of two people) has existed in all cultures, including prior to their exposure to Western philosophies. It should be noted that in ancient Greece and Japan, the union of same sex couples was in fact rather common.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  SurgePox on Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:43 pm

smashbro wrote:
Then why is marriage the HOLY Matrimony between a man and a women?
The state doesn't recognize marriage as holy matrimony, but simply as a legal union of two individuals. Excluding same sex couples from marriage is a huge rights violations, and i like to think that that kind of discrimination is a thing of the past.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Smashy B on Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:11 pm

I've just been arguing the Christian view of marriage (or to be more specific, Lutheran and it is in the Bible (but enough on religion)) and see what kind of arguement I'd get from you guys. I did this, because this came up at the last youth group, and it made sense what was said for being for Prop 8, but nonetheless seems discriminatory. In the end, I'm against Prop 8, and I'm one of two at the group that is. I just haven't announced it like the other guy, since I guess I care more on other's judgrment there than the other guy because I have more of a connection there than him, while he's there for his girlfriend.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  SurgePox on Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:27 pm

That's good that your sticking to your convictions, This thread is about discussion, and the internet is anonymous, so there is very little harm in throwing your opinion out there.

Oddly enough, I go to a Lutheran youth group as well, and this issue hasn't come up at all. Maybe it's because our new leader is terrible and we never do anything anymore, so i miss being able to discuss this sort of thing with people who are very much centered around the bile's teachings.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:48 pm

^Precisely. This is an open and honest discussion about political topics we think are relevant, and I'm glad you guys are cool enough to say what you think and not attack anyone for their views. (screw the Zelda Universe political/religious forums...)

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  SurgePox on Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:17 pm

gosh, we are all so cool. Very Happy

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:06 pm

Ayep. The election may be over, but I don't see why we can't just convert this thread to one that addresses politics in general. Anything you guys care to discuss? I've been thinking about Iran alot.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  pure_awesome on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:03 am

Abortion? Go!

I say nay! As Horton would say, a person's a person, no matter how small.

Or how pre-foetal they are.


...lOr, y'know, Iran.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Smashy B on Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:03 am

Abortion...*sigh* If I were to get Biblical, there's a passage where it says "From the moment I was concieved, I was a sinner." Basically it means that he was a living child from the moment of conception. So abortion is, in a sense, murder. However, having a child prematurely can really mess up ones life, like a teen pregnancy. In that kind of situation, I find abortion necessary (though there's probably a better word for it than necessary).

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:35 am

Fine, pure_awesome, fine. Have it your way.

Abortion is an...uncomfortable subject for me because I feel both sides have very valid points. Like smashbro and pure_awesome, I think a person is basically a person from the get-go. But the emotional, psychological, and life long costs teen pregnancy and stuff...could end up ruining the lives of an entire family. I'm leaning towards pro-choice, because I think its up to the pregnant woman more than anyone else, but it still is a tough issue.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  SurgePox on Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:57 pm

If you don't want an abortion, then don't go and get an abortion.

but don't step on the decisions of others. A fetus doesn't have rights (yet.)
The day that a fetus is recognized as a person by the United States is the day I stop supporting abortion.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Smashy B on Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:33 pm

Well, Obama is president.
Get ready to bend over and get fucked up the ass for the next 4 years.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Weldar on Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:18 pm

Like I think with abortion people should have the choice for it. I can understand why people are against it and I don't fully agree with the a fetus has no right statement but if someone really wants an abortion I don't see why we should stop them. The way I'd see it I'd rather have no life than a bad one, and in a way we overvalue life. I don't know if I would actually support abortion in a personal case but I think the choice should be made by the people involved and not the country they are in.

As for Obama, meh don't really care that much. But come on, did you care about Australia's elections last year Question though not

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  SurgePox on Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:40 pm

smashbro wrote:Well, Obama is president.
Get ready to bend over and get fucked up the ass for the next 4 years.
Obama may be all about change, but captain ginyu is all about CHANGE NOW!


CHANGE NOW!!

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Smashy B on Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:48 pm

I'd rather have cash.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  SurgePox on Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:55 pm

^well said.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  pure_awesome on Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:00 pm

On teen pregnancies: Teens shouldn't be having sex in the first place, based entirely on the fact that they're too immature to fully comprehend the consequences (you could make a whole new person) and way too immature to deal with them.

Even if you want to shuck your responsibilities, putting your child up for adoption is a much smarter, more morally sound way of avoiding raising a child. Hell, there's thousands of couples that are actively looking, you'll be doing them a favour. But for nine months, you have to deal with the consequences of a poor decision.

On the rights of a fetus: A fetus has basic human rights, just like everyone else. Abortion prevents it from living a life, at all. That's not a choice, that's murder.

On Obama: I don't see how his election could possibly imply anything negative. He has sound reasoning to back up pretty much every point that he made, so as long as he follows through on some of them (he is a politician, after all), the U.S. should count herself lucky. Besides, after that whole "George W. Bush" thing, it sure as hell seems like the country needs a symbol they can rally behind, and "First Black President, check out how open-minded we are" is a pretty good one.

Plus, considering the earnings bracket you guys are likely in, tax cuts are go.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Relmitos on Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:30 pm

as long as all that socialism stuff is nothing more then BS, cause that alone would severely hurt the economy more then it already is. Making the hard-working people give some of their hard-earned money to people who either can't or just don't work as hard? Why work hard if that's the case? I also doubt it'll solve any of the racism problems that are around. It might, but.....it seems unlikely to me

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Jonas on Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:28 am

pure_awesome wrote:On the rights of a fetus: A fetus has basic human rights, just like everyone else. Abortion prevents it from living a life, at all. That's not a choice, that's murder.
A fetus has human rights, but a sperm cell and an ovum don't? It's not illegal to masturbate, and menstruation certainly isn't illegal (you can't really do anything about it anyway), but both can be seen as preventing someone from living a life.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:58 am

On the socialist stuff with Obama: If Congress doesn't want to pass socialist measures, then we wont have socialism. The President can't legislate, only aprove, veto, or uphold. Everything both canidates said about passing billls and laws and stuff was kinda bullshit, because they can't do ANY of it without a consenting Congress.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  pure_awesome on Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:03 am

Jonas wrote:A fetus has human rights, but a sperm cell and an ovum don't? It's not illegal to masturbate, and menstruation certainly isn't illegal (you can't really do anything about it anyway), but both can be seen as preventing someone from living a life.
Of course they don't. For this simple reason:

As long as a two-year old child is properly taken care of, it will live a normal human life (in general).

As long as a fetus is properly taken care of, it will live a normal human life (eventually, and in general).

As long as a sperm cell is properly taken care of... nothing. It will stay a sperm cell until it dies. It's not, nor will it ever become, a human being on it's own. It's just a tool used to make one. Therefore, there's no reason whatsoever to award it basic human rights.

So it's preventing it from living a life, yes, but it's not preventing it from living a human life. In much the same way that it's perfectly fine to kill a mosquito, it's perfectly fine to kill a sperm cell.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:28 pm

Oh, and Amendment 2 was past here in Florida. That's 27 states for no gay marriages. How'd Amendment 8 go over there in California?

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Smashy B on Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:16 pm

As of what I heard on the news this morning, Prop 8 is likely to pass.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  gaiages on Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:25 pm

Yeah, it passed.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:49 pm

Just looked it up. Florida, California, and Arizona all passed Amendments banning gay marriage.

Looks like we still have quite a ways to go.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

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