The Whatever Thread

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  SurgePox on Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:21 pm

pure_awesome wrote:On the rights of a fetus: A fetus has basic human rights, just like everyone else. Abortion prevents it from living a life, at all. That's not a choice, that's murder.

I disagree. A fetus is not granted any rights by the united states government, or any other governing body.
That being said, i believe it's worth noting that i really only believe in first trimester abortions, By the third trimester the fetus could be capable of living outside of the womb, then it becomes murder. Seconds kinda a grey area but if you've waited that long i think it's too late to change your mind.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:31 pm

This could be argued back and forth forever, because both sides have valid points. Let's not get into a circular debate here.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  SurgePox on Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:47 pm

^If you insist.

A topic change could be good, and could keep this from possibly getting personal.

So, Obama is our prez nao. discuss?

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  gaiages on Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:46 am

^I know this'll sound racist, but I'm glad he's president, since now it'll be harder for black people to say the "white man's keeping him down". It's just not really that valid anymore.

Bad to say, I know, but I just get sick of hearing excuses from people.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:29 pm

As stated previously, I wasn't really happy with either canidate.

But.

YAY! even though I don't think Obama is the best choice we had, the incredible positive attitude that the American people, Congress (Democrats at least), and the entire world are feeling opens up so many opportunities. I've been looking at articles about responces around the world to the election, and everyone is absolutely thrilled to be moving beyond theBush administration's unilateralism and give America a fresh chance. This really is a chance to forge new bonds with new countries and repair old ones. Plus, the public here is, for now, willing to contribute and invest more to better the country. Politicians are seeing the success Obama has had and are beginning to actually replace their priorities on ideals instead of patronage. (Again, for now.)

The point is, even with my reservations about Obama, the possibilities that now exist compared to what would have under McCain are far more dare I say, hopefull.

smashbro, I detected a hint of animosity towards our new President Elect, and I understand where you're coming from. (I think) But the country now has an opportunity to move foreward, instead of stagnate. Aside from the political banter, the acceptance speech also proved that he understood the enormity of the challenges he, and the rest of us, face, and recognizes that as of now, he really hasn't earned the praise he's recieving. I would also like to point out that I was kind of moved by McCain's concession. It was very heartfelt and chivalrous, and he too is looking foreward to the future. His record also shows that he'll have no problem reaching across the aisle to lend a helping hand, and considering the amont of influence he now holds in the Republican Party, that could be huge. So for now, I will remain optimistic about the future of this country.

What a long post...
EDIT: Holy crap what a long post.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Smashy B on Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:51 pm

In his victory speech, Obama is all high and mighty about moving forward, but he even says that change may not even come in the first year or even the first term. Way to go and contradict yourself, like every other Democrat. Despite what you may think though, this is how it is and I'm going to be optimistic, cause bitchin wont do anything. The tax thing is what I'm pissed on for personal reasons. My grandfather runs his own store and sales have been down and aren't looking like they're going to get better soon, due to a BevMo and another business that opened up creating competition. Now Obama wants to tax him, that's fuckin great.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:33 pm

Of course you have to take you and your families finances into account. My dad makes about over a hundred thousand a year, which is within the top fifteen percent, but we're still low enough that we won't recieve any additional taxes. So, I am kind of incapable of seeing things from your perspective.

I know this is going to sound bad, but...we kind of need more taxes in place. No one likes paying them of course, but we've got two wars going on and a budget defecit so bad that, well, I don't even need to tell you. It's gonna hurt, but lowering them or keeping things status quo would screw us even harder in the long run. Again, I'm not saying I'm glad your grandfather's business is getting taxed...

As for the contradiction you saw in the acceptance speech, I saw that more as a realistic appraisal more than anything else, but I don't think either one of us are going to change their opinion on that.

And as for being optimistic and all that jazz, you're completely right. The best we can both do is look foreward, cross our fingers, and pray everything doesn't go to hell.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  gaiages on Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:40 pm

The think about raising taxes is, not everyone can pay them. To raise taxes all around would probably completely screw over low income individuals and families, as their money is tight enough as is, and having to pay more will only make things harder with the current economy. Now, I've lived in the low tax bracket all my life, so it's hard to imagine more taxes on people who simply don't make enough, because when I use to work full-time at mininum wage and not go to school and STILL have to pay taxes after the year's through, it's a little depressing. And though I'm a student now and don't have to pay taxes, I may have to drop out for a year again just to support myself, so it's something that really concerns me. I like being able to pay my bills, and not have to worry about paying taxes at the end of the year too... for me, that's just too much to handle.

I wish taxes were a flat percentage around the WHOLE tax bracket-thingie that everyone paid. Like, 10% for everyone, no exceptions. But, that'll never go through.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:35 pm

^I understand, but only people making over 250 thousand a year are getting the boost, not low income. So, its not that low income families will suddenly be paying more, but that the focus is being shifted away from them to those that can supposedly afford it. At least that's my understanding.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  gaiages on Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:08 pm

Well, giving tax breaks to the poor is also a bad thing, but... eh, I'll save that for another day.

I think I misunderstood your previous post. x3 Sorry.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  pure_awesome on Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:59 pm

smashbro wrote:In his victory speech, Obama is all high and mighty about moving forward, but he even says that change may not even come in the first year or even the first term.
Honestly though? Everyone knew that. It's not like Obama is going to flitter into the White House and sprinkle pixie dust on the recession to make it go away. He may be President-Elect, but he's still one man. He's just saying he wants to bring change, he's going to bring change, and it's going to take a while. Don't see it as a contradiction, see it as a warning.

If I understand Obama's tax plan properly (which I thought I did, until now), then I don't see why your uncle would be getting his taxes hiked. If he is, then that sucks. But hey, it's a democracy. The wants of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Smashy B on Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:51 pm

I thought that the the tax thing was going to included those making less income and not $250,000+. That said, I knew people with low-income wouldn't be getting the boost. But who is to say that it will stay at 250,000+? What if Obama dicides to change it so that it to 150,000, or even lower?

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:32 pm

I'm pretty sure that he said ABOVE 250,000, not under. But yeah, he can say whatever he wants and still try and do something different. I'll try and find a video for you guys.

EDIT: I imagine this is good enough.

http://www.mlive.com/us-politics/index.ssf/2008/11/obama_will_stick_to_middleclas.html

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  pure_awesome on Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:42 am

Obama's tax plan was one of the main crutches of his campaign. If he tried to lower it by that much, all hell would break loose before his new puppy even got a chance to pee on the couch. And I can't see that ever passing through the house, ever.

Besides, guessing games don't do anything but hurt. We could say that sure he supports change NOW, but what if he decides that he actually thinks Bush was doing a pretty good job after all, and the U.S. is just going to continue on it's merry way? What-if games are fun and all, but usually impractical.

He's got a good head on his shoulders and a can-do, will-do attitude. And much, much, much more importantly, he's getting people active in the direction of their country again. I heard that the voter turnout for people aged 18-21 was the highest it's been, ever. Even some of the guys I know who supported McCain are saying that they'd have preferred McCain, but Obama is appealing in his own way. It's actually uniting people, and... I don't know, from up here, it looks pretty good.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:35 am

^The voting booths at USF actually ran out of ballots. Very Happy They had to truck in a bunch more and extend the voting timeframe. There was hell to pay for the campus organizers.

The thing that bugged me the most about this election was how the media behaved. It was so overwhelmingly in favor of Obama and really treated Clinton and McCain pretty unfairly.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  SurgePox on Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:19 pm

Lol, i just noticed Erions post count is currently 420.

Call me dumb if you like, but i believe that the rich should get more tax breaks, the only reasons people offer tax breaks to the poor is pure politics, it's just to get more people to vote for them. The rich don't owe anything to the poor, and shouldn't be forced to give away a larger percentage of their paycheck just because the poor outnumber them. Poor people already barely pay taxes as it is, they just need to save up money and make financially responsible decisions.

Also, worth noting, I'm pretty much dirt poor.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:13 pm

Consider this: In America, 2% of the population controls 98% of the wealth.

From a practical standpoint, it doesn't make sense to make the poor bear the largest burden. Also consider that most of that that 2% was born into wealth. The "American Dream" isn't an impossiblitiy, but it is a rarity. So the idea that they earned their tax cuts is for the large part ridiculous. (SurgePox, I know that's not what you said, I'm just throwing it out there.)

SurgePox is correct though, the rich don't owe the poor anything. But keep in mind that being poor means that you may not be able to afford to pay the brunt of the nations taxes. And while irresponsible desicions on the part of the poor and middle class helped lead to the current financial crisis, the upper echelons embedded in Wall Street are equally as guilty, as they are the ones who authored such dangerous practices and had the training and education to realize what would happen in the end. So do you tax the stupid who can't afford it, or the corrupt who can?

Edit: And yes, my post count is slightly ridiculous.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  SurgePox on Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:27 pm

You tax everyone fairly. You don't give an unfair break to the poor, who barely pay as it is, and play it off like you're some kind of hero who is "saving" them from the oppression of doing their civic duty and paying their fair share.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:47 pm

They don't have enough to even pay a "fair" share. I'm not trying to defend them, (though there is a direct link between the socio-economic state of your family and your success rate at school) I'm simply saying a progressive tax rate is the most effective form of taxation when there's such a huge discrepancy in the allocation of wealth.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Gorblax on Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:36 am

Eiron wrote:Edit: And yes, my post count is slightly ridiculous.

I think he was making a "420" reference.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:59 am

You better just take another pop culture reference trophy Gorblax.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Gorblax on Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:32 pm

I need to buy some storage space, I think. Whoo.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:37 pm

Anyways, anything else you guys want to discuss? There's only fifty billion different topics. How bout...foriegn affairs?

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Gorblax on Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:55 pm

Israel: totally sweet. Hoping Obama doesn't completely pull the US's involvement.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

Post  Eiron on Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:24 pm

I like keeping myself informed about the world's troubled areas, so I can go with this. Israel's not gonna lose our backing, but they are SERIOUSLY scared about the US's softer policy towards Iran. I think that if they have to make a unilateral move against them, they will.

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Re: The Whatever Thread

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