TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  DRTJR on Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:35 pm

The Doctor wrote:...

This stuff seems pretty simple.

We go over it every game.

WHY IS THIS NOT SIMPLE?
Because we haven't decided yet.

Also even if on day two we have nothing we only lost 1 townie and have a better statistical possibility of getting a mafia. If we don't lynch a townie that is one more townie that the mafia has to spend a night phase to win.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  TheTJ on Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:53 pm

DRTJR wrote:Also even if on day two we have nothing we only lost 1 townie and have a better statistical possibility of getting a mafia. If we don't lynch a townie that is one more townie that the mafia has to spend a night phase to win.

Okay, but say we did this day one. Why shouldn't we do the exact same thing day two? Everything you said holds just as true, heck, even MORE so. Say out of a group of 20, 5 are mafian, making it a 25% chance of hitting one. If we do nothing a townie dies and now it's 5/19 and the percentage jumps up by 1.32%

Now it's day two, we have few to no leads. If we do a no vote and another townie dies it goes down to 5/18 and the percentage jumps up by 1.46% we increase our odds of hitting a mafian more on a day two no vote than a day one. Then why don't we do it?

Because it's a poor strategy, if we never try we'll never hit a mafian. They'll always have the odds on their side. And no, we won't have nothing. DRTJR, you keep missing this point so I'm going to make it as clear as I can:

EVEN IF WE HIT A TOWNIE WE HAVE VOTING RECORDS AND REACTIONS TO GO OFF OF

See, with a mass no vote, what do you get? Nothing. With an actual voting record however, somewhere down the line you might notice someone diverts attention when someone gets too much pressure, or maybe someone has a habit of making a deciding vote between a townie or a mafian. The point is Voting records, next to arguements, are one of the most important parts of this game, and if we do a no vote that gets the town off to a VERY bad start. There's just no reason not to vote (From the group point of view), and every reason for it.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  Weldar on Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:09 am

I was gonna post but TJ just made pretty much all the points I would have, thanks for that TJ.

But yeah most of what it comes down to is by bandwagoning a no lynch day 1 you just end up back on square 1 day 2 minus one townie life. Even with day 1 vote records your average day 2 isn't much better than day 1 but no one would think of no lynching then. Yes there is a chance a cop or tracker sees something n1 but that's not likely enough to rely on and given this is a pm game they may choose to wait a day and get a trusted person to relay that info to the thread rather than outing it right away anyway.

I do want to respond to something Requiem said, he brings up a good point about people being scared to start a vote on a townie. Don't be, that's stupid. The thing about townies is, they don't have any information, they don't know who their friends are, they make mistakes. It's only natural. Starting a bandwagon on a town player isn't anything scummy on it's own. Sure it can be in certain situations, like is you push hard on a townie lynch while there's also a mafian up for lynch/close in the votes or if you keep lynching townies and never seem to be pushing on mafians all game that can be suspicous but there's no need to get worried and defensive for getting a single townie killed.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  Quaetam on Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:16 am

Agree with Weldar 100% about the Gambler's Fallacy.

Also want to add that I'm sick of the whole 'we have no leads on day 1' argument. Here's what happens with a no lynch: The mafia makes a kill, either targeting an inactive [which we did last game for this VERY REASON] or a player with a good reputation, and day 2 we're left either speculating as to why they killed that inactive or saying "oh, well we know [insert player here] is good at this, makes sense that he died. So, hmmm what to do." There's the chance a cop could have a good hit or something, or a roleblocker stop the killer, but frankly since that's not something we want to count on, ultimately it comes down to discussion, debates, how people play, whether they scumslip or they present themself well. What makes day 1's discussion at face value so less valuable than day 2? I for one tend to not vote on day 1 unless I see a plausible target, but that doesn't mean we can't apply pressure; shake the tree, see what falls. You know, try to get reactions out of people. TJ has the complete right idea, hell, he's basically stated my argument for me here.

That all being said, what I find matters more than lynch vs non lynch is the debate itself. No-lynches can still create a lot of discussion if done well. Look at what I did game 7: I used a hostlynch bandwagon to test a number of peoples' reactions, this got me suspicious of about two mafians from the first day, with a couple red herrings that were ferreted out as time went on. It's possible to gauge peoples' reactions as long as there's discussion going on. And the logic for waiting till day 2 to lynch is only even approachable if we have a lot of debate day 1 and still no conclusive target by the end. The choice of kill, unless the mafia is smart and shoots random, can help clear up who may be with the mafia, and beyond that seeing how people react in the second day is often a good way to spot scumtells.

Frankly, I worry less about deciding to lynch and more about how people are acting: If a good enough target presents itself, great. If not, I don't tend to go for a random lynch, but quite frankly I can see that pushing for one helps determine a lot of reactions, create more activity across the board, and so forth.

Fuck, for now I'll even throw out there that I find Sahrimnir a little suspicious. First Minby jokingly does the whole 'first to vote is scum' thing, which he's done in several past games, and then Sah follows it. Nothing comes of it, Weldar votes DRTJR entirely arbitrary and makes a good point about lynching vs no-lynching day 1, and Sah says he agrees with Weldar's argument and then follows through with a DRTJR vote. Those two posts he made both seemed like he was trying to legitimize and follow up on essentially trivial votes by other players, and make it seem like a solid argument for a bandwagon push, and have had zero content.

Oh and Relmitos' reactions to TJ are a little defensive, I guess, notable largely because the argument has little to do with either of them, and he seems to be worried he may have left a wrong impression.

Requiem wrote:Because people are afraid of course! If you accidentally lynch a townie then you instantly get this foreboding feeling that you'll be next on the chopping block because of your vote. That's why I felt bad about Snake's death last game. I pushed for him, he died and ended up being a townie. I felt like that incriminated me and thus went into hyper-defensive mode. 'Course I'll still push a lynch on day one because I consider it wasteful not to take a chance.

That's the other thing: Townies shouldn't be afraid to die for the town until the game gets down to the wire. If you base your decisions off of fear that you'll be arbitrarily next on the chopping block because you pushed wrong, well, you might as well not play, because frankly anyone who contributes to the debate gets scrutinized. Sure, there's the risk people will find you suspicious, but it's a risk you have to take if you want to push your leads, and one always worth taking if you want to help the town win.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  Requiem on Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:39 am

Well, at least in my case, I don't consider myself to have won if I died, even if my team does win. Personal thing, ya know? So my surviving is a high priority. I know at least a few others feel at least somewhat the same in that regard. Still, it's not a fear that's going to stop me from playing you understand, I just end up playing in a highly defensive state. You all should be used to this from me. Irratic behavior, highly defensive, and a typical level of not caring too terribly much half the time mixed with slight sarcasm. These are all traits that I carry each game. Despite that, I enjoy each game I play (Excluding that one where I died night one, that sucked, but even then I enjoyed it, despite being dead). So saying that being afraid to be up on the block next doesn't necessarily apply to everybody.

'Course, I do pretty much vote all the time, so I guess I can't be showing that much fear. Or Perhaps it's just a lack of caring. Not sure which. At this point I'm probably just rambling from lack of sleep.

That aside, I'm really surprised this whole lynch/nolynch thing is still going. The arguments seem to be the same every time, aren't they? Everybody sticks to their guns. Nothing changes. Such is life. My vote still stays on Q, because he's a crafty bastard and I don't really feel like anybody else has been that suspicious as of yet. Day One, what're ya gonna do?

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  nn8n on Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:58 am

Weldar wrote:......Oh my god. Avos you are not serious, please tell me you are not serious.

Your logic in that last post. It is wrong, 100% fundamentally wrong. Maths does not work that way. You are using what is called gambler's fallacy, people's affiliations in past game have absolutely 0 effect on thier affliation in the next. Everyone has the exact same odds of being mafia in this game X/21, where X is the number of mafians in this game, past games do nothing to effect those odds (assuming the host doesn't rig the rolls which no host should). I know this better than anyone, I've played every game here I was a townie game 1, I wasn't a townie again until game 9 (though there was a break as I hosted game 3). The odds of a long streak are technically low but the odds of each individul game remain the same. The odds of flipping 10 heads in a row is 1/1024, the odds of flipping a 10th heads after flipping 9 heads is 1/2, the math works the same here.

You know what unvote, Vote: Avos

I'm still against day 1 no lynches and I'm still going to continue to attack anyone who pushes for them (I never claimed to have any good reason to vote DRTJR I've just made it my mission to do everything I can to wipe out the day 1 no lynchin attitude) but your logic there was just so mind numbingly wrong and stupid I just have to vote you for it, seriously man.

Hey awesome, lesson learned, thanks! I was thinking that the things I said was flawed and hence why I asked if I was off base there! I can keep that in mind for future games also!

Relmitos wrote:
Avos Me Lardo wrote:
As much as I'd love to grudge Q, the likelihood of him being mafia twice is unlikely, so until he gets caught or does something that puts him too much in control we shouldn't lose his insightfulness.

Yea, because we all know Q is bad at this game and leaves trails that easily labels him as a bad guy. He's so bad at Mafia. /sarcasm.

As a matter of fact he does, go back to last game and in the earlier parts he does leave some hints toward his alignment. After the game finished last time he said he likes putting out tells to keep himself fair. He's awesome at the game yes cause he is all about fairness. Avalanche and myself saw some of them, but couldn't explain them well enough to put a case against him.

Quaetam wrote:That's the other thing: Townies shouldn't be afraid to die for the town until the game gets down to the wire. If you base your decisions off of fear that you'll be arbitrarily next on the chopping block because you pushed wrong, well, you might as well not play, because frankly anyone who contributes to the debate gets scrutinized. Sure, there's the risk people will find you suspicious, but it's a risk you have to take if you want to push your leads, and one always worth taking if you want to help the town win.

I like how this works, cause it shouldn't be important for people to try to stay alive early game if they are town, there is always enough abilities around that it can even things out no matter who it is. If people felt I needed to go its a small price to continue to help the town go after those that are scum, it is the best way for the game to be played!

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  Quaetam on Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:13 am

As a matter of fact he does, go back to last game and in the earlier parts he does leave some hints toward his alignment. -Avos

You know, dealing with a dying relationship, and thus being hardly able to pay any real attention to the game at all had NOTHING to do with it. CLEARLY

I wasn't going to bring this up in game last game because I felt it'd be shitty of me to use that as an excuse, but frankly it's true, I really couldn't give a rat's ass about it until about day 5, when I literally got home following a breakup, had three hours left until the lynch and was up like six votes to none, and said fuck it, I'm winning this, turned it around, and won.

After the game finished last time he said he likes putting out tells to keep himself fair. -Avos

No.

He's awesome at the game yes cause he is all about fairness. -Avos

Thank you.

Avalanche and myself saw some of them, but couldn't explain them well enough to put a case against him. -Avos

Did you actually read Av's argument? The first and second days we argued, the latter of which was his first lynch, the entire thing was based off the fact that he sent me a few PMs, which supposedly contained hints, hints that never existed, and a few other nonsensical things. The third day, that was when he actually had something, and it had nothing to do with my behavior, it was the fact that I'd dodged a nightkill. I managed to bullshit/argue/distract/ ultimately claw my way out of that with what was quite a good scheme on my part.

And your argument was solely based on the fact that people hadn't lynched me yet, IIRC. Which was annoying.

I like how this works, cause it shouldn't be important for people to try to stay alive early game if they are town, there is always enough abilities around that it can even things out no matter who it is. If people felt I needed to go its a small price to continue to help the town go after those that are scum, it is the best way for the game to be played! -Avos

It's not as much about hte abilities as the debate, I can't stress this enough. At least for me I base my play on how people act, not just their potential powers. The idea behind not being afraid is more that townies staying silent for the sake of staying alive can only hurt the town's cause. Better to risk looking a little suspicious and actually get stuff DONE.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  nn8n on Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:29 am

Quaetam wrote:After the game finished last time he said he likes putting out tells to keep himself fair. -Avos

No.

My apologies if I misinterpreted what was said wrong. We can strike this from the record then.

Quaetam wrote:I like how this works, cause it shouldn't be important for people to try to stay alive early game if they are town, there is always enough abilities around that it can even things out no matter who it is. If people felt I needed to go its a small price to continue to help the town go after those that are scum, it is the best way for the game to be played! -Avos

It's not as much about hte abilities as the debate, I can't stress this enough. At least for me I base my play on how people act, not just their potential powers. The idea behind not being afraid is more that townies staying silent for the sake of staying alive can only hurt the town's cause. Better to risk looking a little suspicious and actually get stuff DONE.

Yeah, and as everyone has said everyone plays differently. I'm sure there are more players that go off of abilities over actions. It's great that you are one of the latter which is why you are always a top of the list player.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  SnakeInABox on Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:07 am

Vote: Avos

I don't want to sit around for a whole game and watch everyone tell Avos how wrong he is.

Lets just kill him now ffs.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  Avalanche on Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:15 am

@ Snake

In Avos' defense, he was the only one who actually joined me in my shouty crusade against Q. By that logic we'd be beter of voting TD.

So let's see....Ansem is gonna eat a Kakuna, Sahrimnir turns out to be a Slowking who can't fucking swim and I get to be a Luxray who spams the fuck out of magnet rise......... Guess you had to be there.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  Sahrimnir on Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:25 am

Hey! I could swim just fine when I didn't have to carry anyone!

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  nn8n on Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:42 am

I have to agree with snake. Everything I say is met with an, 'your argument is invalid' remarks.

I called out Q in game 14 and went about it the wrong way by saying we should take out smash first, but ultimately was on the right track.

Then last game as Avalanche just said I was the only other one that called out his strategy to win, as he was doing it.

I'm fine with whatever. Like I said to Q if it bolsters the town toward a better understanding of what is going to go down and you guys just want to not have to put up with 'crackpot theories' then by all means.

I really think if you guys allow me to stick around though I can be helpful. Maybe a little bit of truce toward me not spouting off so much and heel planting in my theories? I thought I did that during the early part of last game to be flexible toward what the town needed until it was too late.

Let me not ramble on too much cause there is only so much room for everyone to re-add their thoughts to each of these lines.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  TD260 on Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:16 am

King Avalanche wrote:@ Snake

In Avos' defense, he was the only one who actually joined me in my shouty crusade against Q. By that logic we'd be beter of voting TD.


Or not.

Not gonna stop you.

It's your choice.

But I'd really prefer not.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  Weldar on Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:33 am

Avos Me Lardo wrote:I have to agree with snake. Everything I say is met with an, 'your argument is invalid' remarks.

This is generally only happens to the ones that, well are. Even if you're right your logic is often poor. Take game 14 as the example, you were right to not be blindly trusting Smash and Q but you had gave no good reason to mistrust them either. You were basically just blindly mistrusting them for being going players which is equally as stupid as blindly following someone for being a good player. Or me flipping out at you earlier today, that was just because you were using some of the stupidest arguments people can use in a mafia game, it's just 100% mathematically wrong. But I'd slam anyone for using that logic, I did that to TJ back in game 9 and he was using it to defend me.

On your whole thoeries thing, really there's nothing wrong with theorizing and such but you have to provide some sort of solid reasoning and evidence to go with it. Throwing around crackpot theories with no real logic or evidence to them is just useless. Sure they could be right but if they are it's probably more out of cooincidence than anything. It's mafia, anything is possible, we already know that. What you need to do is figure out what out of all these possibilites is at least plausible.

On that note I'm gonna Unvote, Vote: Sah
Time for my first serious vote of the day. The jumping on the voting the first to vote thing was silly but that I can forgive but his jump onto DRTJR was sheepy as fuck and quite shifty. I didn't actually provide any good reasons to vote DRTJR, I was voting him more for principle than anything. Sure I did post an argument of some sort, but that was just an argument for lynching in generally. Nothing in my post gave any sort of logic for DRTJR being scummy but he still jumped along with as if I had. Does look a lot like someone thinking they see a nice easy lynch and hoping to jump on quick and get the ball rolling.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  DRTJR on Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:52 am

@Avos
Take off the tin foil cap and stop building a space ship in your basement. the clearer and more logical you sound the more believable you are.


Call me crazy, but Sah could be a lyncher trying to go for a lucky day one win by trying to hang somebody, But in reality the vote record of changes is very shifty so Unvote:Raya:'( and voteSahrimnir
the pacifist in me cringes at this but it makes sense

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  SnakeInABox on Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:03 am

DRTJR that was so rude dude jeeze you don't have to be a dick about things.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  Quaetam on Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:09 am

Yeah, Avos, as I said above, your argument against me last game was almost exclusively based on the idea that I was a good player and manipulating you all. Which was annoying, and easy to pick apart. Avalanche's as well had a lot of flawed logic, it only gained a lot of legit weight when I escaped his nightkill Razz.

I also agree about Sahrimnir, as I mentioned back in page 2. I'll quote it here for you guys who don't want to go textwall fishing:

Quaetam wrote:Fuck, for now I'll even throw out there that I find Sahrimnir a little suspicious. First Minby jokingly does the whole 'first to vote is scum' thing, which he's done in several past games, and then Sah follows it. Nothing comes of it, Weldar votes DRTJR entirely arbitrary and makes a good point about lynching vs no-lynching day 1, and Sah says he agrees with Weldar's argument and then follows through with a DRTJR vote. Those two posts he made both seemed like he was trying to legitimize and follow up on essentially trivial votes by other players, and make it seem like a solid argument for a bandwagon push, and have had zero content.

Weldar just said himself that the vote on DRTJR was arbitrary, so this line of thought is supported, and Sah looks pretty scummy. His latest post is just as lacking content, and when coupled with the other two reeks of a scummy attempt to stay active. I've been waiting to see how/if he reacts but he hasn't presented a reaction yet, so for now I'll follow my own logic, and Weldar's, here. This is tentative at the moment, but it's the best choice I see us having for now. If a better target arises I'm willing to switch.

Vote: Sahrimnir

Oh, and I do want to actually point out Avos here, beyond his flawed logic he's being incredibly obsequious, sucking up to me so much in those posts it isn't even funny. I appreciate the compliments, man, I really do, but I can't shake the feeling you're trying to get, and stay, on my good side. It seems like a conscious attempt to fly under the radar by brown-nosing, to put it quite bluntly. No real fos or judgment yet, Avos is a frusturating guy to read; even last game he looked pretty scummy despite being town. The difference is that here the activity that he's doing feels more like a deliberate attempt to avoid being lynched and hence suspicious. Worth paying attention to, not worth lynching yet.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  Quaetam on Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:14 am

Also since I was ninjad, DRT, I highly doubt that he'd be a lyncher if he's switching targets like that.

Oh and I find it strange that td's only post so far, after mentioning that this is a game of randomness and we might all get screwed, seems to be, with a little dramatic flair warning people not to lynch him when a vote hasn't even been cast his way yet.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  TD260 on Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:38 am

I've actually just been unable to use my computer, and typing long posts on my phone is a bitch. I'll form a cohesive argument when I sit down at my desk.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  TD260 on Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:10 pm

I was referring more to the fact that a sunkern would make a shitty bodyguard, since, y'know, lowest overall stats ever. XD

Now, as for votes, I generally stick with a "no vote" on day one... However, we've done this argument enough times that there's really no sense in my argument, so I've got to decide who to vote for.

On the one hand, you've got Avos with logical fallacies. On the other hand, you've got Sah with a bandwagon mentality.


Then again, Logical fallacies are not an indication of scumhood... And neither is a bandwagon mentality.

On day one, unless you're one of the bolder people, you generally end up with a bandwagon attempt...

That said, those that bandwagon usually provide a little more explination than
Sahrimnir wrote:Weldar has got a good point.

So, I guess I'm going to go with Vote: Sahrimnir

Since a "no one" vote is totally pointless, and nobody else has really done anything to deserve a vote.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  Quaetam on Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:29 pm

It's not that it's a bandwagon mentality so much as the fact that he's following up on votes presented largely in jest or arbitrarily and attempting to make them look serious. It's that he seems to be trying to START such a bandwagon, and furthermore doing so by calling Weldar's and, earlier, Minby's arguments legit when really Minby's was largely in jest and Weldar's had nothing to do with the guy voted.

Since doing this his only post was completely non-content, and he has been online enough to contribute.

All of this is a weird change in behavior too. Compare it to last game, for example, where Sah, as a townie, waited until he saw a reasonable suspect to cast his vote. He hasn't tended to act this way in the past.

I will say, however, that while Sah is the best suspect right now, this whole thing feels a little preemptive; he's posted a total of THREE TIMES. Frankly, however, those three posts WERE suspicious, and since everyone seems to be going for the day 1 lynch option, this is our best bet. I guess I'm trying to say that we shouldn't be afraid to push this if he feels to be our best target, gentlemen, but keep your minds open, because the game is just over 12 hours begun.

Oh, and Avos I find actually suspicious, not for his lack of logic, but because he's being essentially as obsequious as possible. It's nothing solid, at all, but it feels like he's going out of his way to get on my good side.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  Raya on Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:38 pm

King Avalanche wrote:
So let's see....Ansem is gonna eat a Kakuna, Sahrimnir turns out to be a Slowking who can't fucking swim and I get to be a Luxray who spams the fuck out of magnet rise......... Guess you had to be there.

Least we now know Ansem's role- he's a Bidoof. With burnt paws. Yes.

As for this game...I agree with lynching on Day 1, same reasons that have been argued previously. As to who to lynch though...DRTJR has been suspicious, but then again there's no much evidence and if he's mafia he will scumslip. If Q is mafia he will live for a long time, simple as that. Unless some crazy powers are happening behind the scenes if he's townie the mafia will want to kill him off ASAP, since he's a hugely dangerous player. Sah has been fairly quiet, save his suspicious votes. So I'm going to vote for him based on that.

Vote: Sahrimnir

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Spoiler:

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  Smashy B on Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:17 pm

Current vote tally:
Sahrimnir (5): Weldar, DRTJR, Quaetam, td260, Raya
Quaetam (1): Requiem
Eisen (1): Fedaykin
DRTJR (1): Sahrimnir
Avos (1): Snake
Lemmings(1): Warchamp7

(I'm counting Lemmings as no one)
I believe the current tally is correct, but there have been a lot of switches to give a margin of doubt.

Reminder that night falls tomorrow 2PM PST (about 26 hours from now).

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  nn8n on Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:19 pm

If anyone I see as suspicious is Quaetam. So I can't use you as a good player as ammo, but you don't want to be complemented for doing things to get people going toward something useful. If anyone is acting the way they do on games they are non-town it is you due to being overly aggressive towards everyone to get someone to slip, and as a way to gain favor for leading the way on things gaining the towns favor. Nearly half the post are yours answering towards everyone in a bullying manner. As I've said it is appreciated that you want to get things rolling but you are going to push everyone to stop even trying to do something like Req said out of fear of making one simple mistake and hanging for it.

Seriously this attack at Sah doesn't strike me due to what self respecting mafia would be that aggressive day one. They are more likely to try to not draw attention to anyone and there are well more people that haven't even posted yet then there are possible mafia members.

I don't know where I am going with this but come on. I have notice you have extra time on your hands lately but this is over the top. Let someone else have some action so it doesn't seem like a one man game.

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

Post  SurgePox on Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:40 pm

Good arguments here against the day one vote, but not good enough to break tradition. I don't know why people are dog piling sah but frankly I don't think that a bit of day 1 fishiness is enough to condemn. This might just have to do with the types of games I'm coming from; I'm used to using the voting record to fish out mafs and reading faces.

vote: no one

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Re: TWBB Mafia 18: Affiliations II - Endgame

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