TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  Relmitos on Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:08 pm

Quaetam wrote:While ultimately your actions did help the Evil League, make no mistake, you were quite a threat to everyone this game, as the remaining posts will elaborate on.

Duh statement is duh Razz

Relmitos
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Third Party Roles

Post  Quaetam on Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:28 pm

Third Party Roles

Raya

Role: The Lost & Found (Game 18)
Affiliation: ??? -> Town
Pokemon: Eevee
(Support: Coalition -> Evil League of Evil)

You are a lonely little Eevee, still young to the world, and scared of the unknown. But something about you refuses you to give up. Your future is full of potential. If only someone would be kind enough to lend you a hand of aid.

You have the “Yoshi” role of this game. Much like game 4, you will join the first player to send you a PM. Just like in Game 10, you will join the first person to vote for you. You will share their alignment, as well as their win condition. You have no powers… for now.

You are not allowed to say in the main thread (until found)that you have this role. You will be modkilled if you do. That doesn't mean you can't try to entice someone to vote for you, just be creative (shouldn’t be too hard for you).

Upon Finding a Master:
Ansem has given you a water stone and evolved you into Vaporeon! You now have acid armor: Any kill targeting you has a 25% chance to fail, and a 50% chance to bring down whoever attempted to take you out.

Poor little Eevee… I like the Yoshirole, a lot. It can be instrumental in changing the face of a game, and has indeed been so in every game it’s been in. This was the role I had Game 18, (a role that VIOLATED THAT GAME’S RULES, causing me quite a headache when I claimed :B), and I was happy to see smashbro submit it here. Since there were no PMs, I changed the PM condition to first person to vote and keep a vote on the Eevee player. That player would then gain unlimited PMs with the Eevee (unlimited but must be cced to me) and choose how to evolve it. In flavor, the role’s concept was quite simple: A lost Eevee, without a trainer, looking for a new master, and a new place to call home. Upon finding his master, I intended to have them bond as they each became relevant in story, but unfortunately neither Raya nor Ansem played key parts while both were alive (Raya being incredibly, incredibly busy, and Ansem becoming more significant after Raya’s death).

Raya, of course, thought that she would be put on DRTJR’s team by the voting rule. Due to their longtime enmity, she did not like this. Not at all. However, DRTJR decided to buty the hatchet, which in addition to some hilarious effects I’ll mention in a moment, allowed her to end up with someone she hadn’t shared a longtime mutual antagonism with. Initially, that was going to be Minby, I believe, and I was ready for Raya to become a fifth Coalition Member, but then Minby changed vote, and Raya ended up with Ansem. Given the Dark before the Dawn RP, this was kind of ironic.

Sadly, both of them were busy throughout much of the game, and never made anything of their mutual connection.

She was, however, very much subjected to another connection. The enmity between Raya and DRTJR has become so well known by this point that DRTJR’s lack of voting Raya instantly actually cast extreme suspicion on both of them, and made each into prime D1 lynch targets. Both fought hard to survive, yet still separate each other, which only made them more suspicious to a few of their detractors (and to an Avalanchian faction bent on using them as a red herring). Day 1 ended without fatalities (except poor Wario Razz) thanks to a pair of doublevote powers, held by DRTJR and JGH27. Beyond defending herself D1, her activity was low but still perceptive; when she posted, she did so intelligently as usual, picking up on Requiem very early, was the one to notice Snake was spontmoded, pointed out the presence of a MB before anyone else, and more.

Ultimately, I found that Raya’s play was hampered by her RL activity and dedication to the RP, but she still managed to do quite well for it. Her death was done by demoman, and she was thus unable to kill her target via bomb. I wish I’d been able to write you a better deathpost Raya, and apologize for that; it’s just hard to weave a Vaporeon being killed into the intensity of the revolution Razz


Requiem

Role: The Hierophant (Game 19)
Character: Kyle Keraga (Quaetam)
Alignment: Manipulative Bastard
(Support: Coalition)

You are the Hierophant, manipulative bastard extraordinaire. Having been thrown into Dragnia, you were hardened by the trials and tribulations of your journey through Mousillon, your rise through Leknaat. To accomplish your goal, you used people like pawns, nothing but playthings to further your own ambitions. Now, in the Kingdom, you see your own creation thriving around you. It is a poetic irony, that you find yourself stranded beneath the characters of your own design. Here, you know what you’re up against. And you’re ready to play the system. Let the Avalanchians try to seize control, let the Coalition work towards their new age. You know their power, you know their strength, and you know exactly how to play each and every one of them. You are going to emerge from this war alive, and you are going to change this world for the better.

You have the Manipulative Bastard role. You may target a player during the night, and that player will become your pawn. That player is bound to you and can now only win alongside you. They will retain their abilities (though there may be some restrictions depending on the ability itself), and retain any private forum access, but cannot tell you their former teammates’ identities. Their role-name will be appended with “a Pawn” upon death. You may only have one pawn at a time, although if a pawn dies you can choose a new one. If you have had a pawn for six phases (so 3 night and 3 day), you may choose to eliminate it and pick a new one.

You win the game by being the last player left alive. Note that if both you and your pawn are the only players left alive you still win, and all your pawns win alongside you. If you die you lose, and your pawn will die alongside you.

MB Private Forum:
http://viril275.proboards.com

This was another flavor-heavy role I really had to have in here… Since Raya AAALMOST had it in Game 17, I really wanted it here. Initially I had planned for Ganondorf to be a Manipulative Bastard with a couple side abilities (maybe 1-shot unblockable ganonban, 1-shot hide in the shadows, a couple other nice utilities). When I scrapped Ganon and beseeched Raya for Hierophant to be in this, initially Kyle was a FOURTH Support Recruiter, set up almost exactly like the ELoE in terms of leadership/support. However, I felt that it would detract from the role of the ELoE, and four supporters was just ridiculous, if kind of awesome, and in flavor for the Hierophant.

Anyways, in-flavor, the idea expanded on Dark Before the Dawn. You may notice that the Avalanche doctor town role was flavored as Roy Zuurveen? That’s because, in the RP, we play ourselves, literally ourselves, transported into a fantasy world, altered by the summoning to have some powers and perhaps a different form. Roy is Avalanche’s real name, Kyle is mine, so I flavored each role after that instead of username (which also helped because we were both in the game multiple times Razz). Anyways, in this scenario, the Tempest of the Void ravaged Dragnia, preventing Q and the Champions alike from accomplishing their goals, and throwing them into the Kingdom.

This resulted in some hilarious fourth-wall-breaking shenanigans… As I’m the one who wrote Game 10, I knew exactly what I was up against… I knew, and respected, the Coalition… I’d participated in Avalanchia as well, so I understood the nature of the hostile regime. And I had played the Demon in Game 15, so I knew the monster that accompanied the Tempest… Given that Kyle knew all the characters in play, he knew how to play them, he could manipulate anyone and everyone, and saw how corrupt the world was. When he’d written Game 10 in fiction, Kyle enjoyed it, but to be thrown into such a reality, he knew it needed change, so he sought it out, he fought his way up the power spectrum, step by step, patient, playing people like pawns. He had never exercised this skill before when in Leknaat, but here, he was both in practice and in a world of his own creation, so his influence grew rapidly. Eventually he hit a ceiling, as all his plans were exhausted, all his cards played… except one. He realized that the only way to take down the Usurper was in a head-on confrontation, and allowed himself to be captured, and brought before the Coalition. Yet his quest was in futility, and he was cut down without remorse. His life ended, his struggles falling just short of success, as he became a martyr to the people, inspiring them, giving them life, opening way to the revolution.

Ingame… I love the Manipulative_Bastard. Despite what the one detractor to this role has said, there really isn’t a downside to having one in play, in almost any setup; aside from a ridiculously powerful combination (like MB-Chessmaster which totally steamrolled Game 6), the MB is actually incredibly balanced; while yes, his power may vary dependent on the pawn he holds, and thus he can be quite powerful, it’s always an all-eggs-in-one-balance deal. It’s like if you took a Serial Killer, eliminated his kill in favor of having a second vote (and thus the ability to gain majority one round earlier), and gave him a slight chance of having extra abilities, and ALSO allows multiple people to be winners if he makes it. Think like a suicide cult with a max membership of 2.

Ultimately it’s quite a difficult role, and also incredibly versatile. Requiem played it very well to both aspects. His gameplay was, for the most part, as usual, but behind the scenes he was incredibly active in using and abusing his pawns, immediately picking Sahrimnir due to his confirmed status, albeit regretting having done so as Sah went absent initially. However, as he grew impatient, as his continued attacks on DarkFalco drew him some suspicion (alongside Surge and Relm), and as Sahrimnir approached the 3-day deadline before Req would be able to kill him, he managed to get Sahrimnir to pull an excellent gambit, pretending to have scanned Fedaykin guilty. This worked better than expected, as Sah was killed that night, and Fedaykin lynched the next day when Sah then was revived by the Arbiter, and pretended Fed was his old master. Fed flipped Avalanchian, as Sah was lynched again (still as a pawn). Smashbro, the pawn he had picked up in Sah’s brief absence, worked incredibly well, drawing Spoon into heavy fire, but unfortunately he didn’t last very long. Yet his death as town made SPOON look guilty in about five ways, leading Spoon to be one of the top lynch targets Day 6. DarkFalco was manipulated that day, and he intended to have her make a play to clear him somehow, but unfortunately, the Avalanchians decided to build Requiem up as a lynch target, and then detonate him, resulting in his demise.

Overall it was quite a twisted, turning scheme, aimed at using each pawn to increase discord and draw others under fire, aiming attention away from Requiem. His pawns were used to separate from each other; had Sahrimnir failed to take Fed down, Req would have taken Fed in and potentially had him scumslip. The idea was literally the main idea behind the MB role: to control the town’s lynches through the actions of pawns. It was a great plan, and behind the scenes he carried it out well.

His bane was a few posts he made in-thread. His in-thread behavior drew him a bit of ire, as while honestly I felt he played quite well, his continued press on DarkFalco days 2 and 3 I think it was, combined with his votes during the phases his scheme was most active, and Ansem scanning him “None” night 2 or so, set him up as a potential Avalanchian, and even as the MB to a few people. There were a few other things, but I can’t properly recall. Anyways, DarkFalco, IIRC, was one of the few to detect that he could be the Hierophant, so he manipulated her in the hopes that she could do something crazy, go down fast, and clear him by flipping pawn. Sadly, things never got to that stage; Requiem was defeated Day 6, his mission of reform, sacrificing his humanity for the good of the world, at an end, and the Hierophant was made a martyr, an icon of the war, the first who stood against the Coalition and showed that they were in fact quite mortal. Yet Requiem played the role very well; the network of pawns, and chaos it created, were amazing, and what I’ve been looking for in a MB since it was first used. Nice job, man.


AvosMeLardo

Character: Kirby (Game 16)
Alignment: None
(Support: Coalition)
Ability: Absorb SK ~ Each night phase you may choose whether to use an ability or nightkill someone. Each player you kill will add their character as a new ability. Your goal is to be the last one standing. At the start of the game for Day Phase 1, you have no ability active.

Back in the days of the Rising War, you had placed your faith in the Mafia of Mewtwo, so sure you could use them... But no, that incompetent demolitions expert and Minister of Green, Viero, nearly killed you in a blast meant for the Queen of Avalanchia! You're done relying on others, oh yes. You're out for your own now, ready to burn the Kingdom to the ground!

Absorbed Abilities:
Daisy: Love of the People~ Your vote counts double for the day.
Metaknight: Watcher ~ Pick a player to learn every back action or ability they used throughout the following day.
Ganondorf: Shadow Sneak ~ Cast a shadow around self to be immune to being targeted by abilities for one phase
Ness: Reflect ~ Force a player to use all their abilities or night kill on themselves instead of their original target.

Some people just like to watch the world burn….. Kirby, classic Butcher from There Will Be Brawl, made an appearance in Game 10 working for Mewtwo’s mafia, and showed up here as one of the game’s two true antagonists… Following his whim, he and his psychic pupils Ness and Lucas worked alongside the Pocket Monster on their quest for dominance of the Kingdom. The mafia’s schemes focused primarily around assassination and terror, yet one scheme, one plan, went awry: As Viero’s bombs, meant for Queen Snake, instead caught his comrade Kirby in their flames, the mafia was thrown into turmoil and driven from their greatest opportunity into utter obscurity, their cause dwindling over the next three days only to be finally snuffed out as the Great Negotiator slew the Pocket Monster in the depths of the Underground.

Yet Kirby, like Viero, survived the explosion. And where Viero was changed by his near-death experience, where he saw the flaws in his way of thinking, Kirby simply turned his back on comradeship once more, and returned to his old ways. He had had enough of allowing the incompetence of others to interfere with his plans, with his desires. So he lay low, allowed himself time to recuperate from his wounds, recognizing that he stood little chance in this world led by the Coalition. And then… …when the Avalanchians came… did he rejoin Viero, and his other comrades? No, no he did not. He set out on his own, ready to carve his own path of destruction through the land, intent on showing the world what pain really meant, and allowing them to slowly, inevitably spiral towards anarchy…

Ingame, Kirby, of course, was a Serial Killer, for what else could he be? Every night he could butcher someone, and would gain their ability. Alternatively, if he was in the mood for more daring, tactical play, he could deny himself a kill in order to use one of his absorbed abilities. In Game 16, this role was forced to alternate each night, but here I opted to give Avos the choice, as the playerbase was much greater, and it would make this role significantly more powerful to be able to kill every night if so need, or vice versa.

Avos, as our resident Kirby, played very well, and in fact I want to take this moment to stop and tell you all:

Guys, stop underestimating Avos already. He’s a very perceptive player, and quite a smart guy.

He played this game almost pure townie in his in-thread actions. I gave him one bit of advice before it started: to simply keep his cool, and not worry if people threw suspicion on him, as that was one of his biggest scumtells in the past. He took it to heart, and it benefitted him quite a lot.

A lot of Avos’ Day 1 and Day 2 play was devoted to analyses of the past ten games to try to determine the setup for Game 20, and paying close attention to the way I handled flavor and rules. Intelligent play, although I’m not the kind of guy to let it break one of my games Razz It worked in the case of DRTJR’s role, almost instantly deducing his identity to be Camilla, from Game 11, and a few more cases (that said, it did slip up in a few areas, as will be mentioned briefly below).

On the scumhunting front, he saw leads and jumped on them with hesitation, spending more time this game than in the past making sure his posts were logical, well-thought-out. Day 2, he scared the shit out of Relmitos with this post. While a lot of the logic in here didn’t hold (assuming the Camilla role must be Avalanchian since she’s a minister in Avalanchia being a prime example… if that were the case almost every forum role would be an Avalanchian Razz), he instantly pinpointed Relmitos and Omicron as scummy for pushing DarkFalco. He was wrong about Omicron, but in pointing at Relm Avos brought a lot of pressure on Relm that almost caused him to lose his cool, and carried with him for a while.

The bandwagon that led to Avos’ death was for all the wrong reasons, ironically. TD made a connection between Avos and DRTJR, and decided to push Avos before DRTJR, as it seemed Avos had exchanged role PMs with DRTJR in private (which would indicate private forum access). I say this was for the wrong reasons, because this is an allstar game; it isn’t too hard to look at past games.

Also, Avos had ONE legitimate and understandable scumslip nobody caught: He made a post where he decided someone’s role must be Avalanchian because it didn’t say Coalition in the Alignment tag, indicating very clearly that he didn’t realize townie roles were Alignment: Townie Razz. Classic scumslip absolutely anyone could make in his position, but nobody caught it.

That said, the moment pressure was on him, for an instant Avos lost a little of his cool, but then recollected and mounted quite a nice defense. Unfortunately for him, both major faction leaders and the Ascendant Demon were already voting on him, and many players followed suit. That said, the argument escalated on both sides, resulting in Avos’ eventual lynch, but in the meantime, his vigilante softclaim got enough people off him that it was almost tied with SurgePox, the Forsaken King. Sadly, it wasn’t quite enough, though, and Avos was lynched Day 2; Kirby vanished once more, leaving the Kingdom haunted by his final condemnation. Still, the struggle he put up here and the confident way he played this role almost like a scumhunter townie were both very impressive, probably one of Avos’ better games yet!



The Ascendant Demon

Relmitos

Role: The Ascendant Demon (Game 20)
Character: The God that Failed (Qod)
Alignment: None
(Support: None)

You are the avatar of darkness, the physical manifestation of the miasma at the end of all things. The world was in your grasp. But you let it slip away, you saw the decay before your eyes and shunned it. Then, when the champion of the people rose to confront you, you escaped by naught but a hair’s breadth. Now you remain wounded, scarred by the enveloping light of Raya’s banstick. Bleeding golden following the duel over your throne, you abdicated your seat, abandoning the world of your origin and rode the final flash of green, the final bolt of lightning, to the Kingdom, a world controlled by self-proclaimed angels, having led a Usurpation of their own.

But it is not to be. The heavens cannot be dominated by mere mortals; you know this to be true. You must strike them down, and carry this world into the abyss.

You seek the utter destruction of the Kingdom; to swallow it up in the fog of the apocalypse. You are a demon, the one who heralds the End of Days. To do this, you must see the deaths of those who champion the people. You are to kill three men, three whose heroics know no bounds, who, by their own means, seek to foolishly build towards some impossible paradigm: Mario, King Avalanche, and the Usurper of Heaven must all be slain. Once your three targets have fallen, you will become a Serial Killer, and kill openly until none remain, and the world falls into your grasp.

To help you on your way, you have immunity to nightkills until such a time as your three targets have all fallen. Beyond this, your powers are paramount to that of a god, and can help you on the way to victory. You have the ability to reshape the nature of reality at will, to bend the fabric of the universe to fit your desires. You have several one-shot abilities. Each will reshape the rules of the game to your liking for the next period of time specified.

Each day and each night, if you don't use one of the powers listed below, you can scan someone to see if they're one of your targets. I won't tell you WHICH target they are.

Here are your abilities:

1) Miasma-Everyone has two votes for the next dayphase. The two players with the most votes will be swallowed by the mist, consumed, erased from the world.

2) Dimensional Vortex-This can be used at anytime, provided you haven't used another ability that phase. You choose two individuals, and they will be trapped in a dimensional vortex. The time this power comes into effect varies dependent on when it’s used: If at night or past midday, it will affect the next dayphase. If before midday, it will occur immediately. Players must pick which of the two can be saved. The other will be sealed away. Note that if trapped you will be eliminated from the game.

3) Hand of God-The dayphase this is used (or next dayphase if you use it at night), the person who is voted for will be able to choose someone to be erased by the power of the miasma. This will also eliminate you from the game if you are chosen, so beware.

4) Paradigm shift-The player targeted will have his power changed, though not alignment. You, of course, cannot self-target. This may not work on ALL roles.

5) Call the Tempest-This is a Teatime power: The phase it is used, a deadly storm will brew, forcing all players to stay indoors. In the day, this will force the lynch to occur as it stands, with the leading voter being erased. At night, no night actions can be performed, with only minor exceptions.

======
Tell me, how many of you remember where the Tempest of the Void came from before Game 20? It wasn’t Game 10, but actually Game 15… In Game 15, Quaetam succeeded in having Weldar lynched, taking his place as host, and ascending to godhood. A day before the finale, Raya placed an unblockable kill on Quaetam; the kill didn’t go off, but as she was killed that same night chose to treat her as alive in flavor for the final day, and have her challenge me in the finale. She wielded a great, golden banstick; as she was Fedaykin, leader of the Coalition. And Quaetam wielded the Tempest itself as his weapons. The duel they waged there broke reality, spilling into other worlds, shattering the normal bounds of the universe. Raya was victorious, disarming her foe, holding him helpless before her banstick… …but her triumph was cut short, as td260 interfered. Quaetam’s power overwhelmed her, erasing her completely, and the Tempest at last died down as the duel ended.

Yet it turns out that the Tempest’s effects, even at the conclusion of the battle, were not forgotten. The Tempest seared through the Coalition-dominated Kingdom ravaging the city below. For five days the Tempest raged, and the people cried words of oblivion, believing their world at its final end. And the splitting of the universe caused worlds to spill over into each other, introducing strangers to the realm, helping set the stage for the game itself.

But that was not all. For in G15 Quaetam allowed a final bolt of Tempest lightning to carry him from the apocalyptic wasteland that was the Lost City, leaving td alone in a desolate world. And that final bolt brought him here, to the Kingdom. The storm cleared in the Mushroom Kingdom, and sheer terror walked. A being beyond comprehension, with power that could not be matched, stalked the streets, as chaos erupted around him, and death followed in his wake…

The Demon was the thing I became in Game 15, with the nickname “Qod”, as that was what a couple people jokingly called me in that scenario. His purpose here was absolute: to destroy fate itself, to shatter reality and render all unto the void, for whatever dark whims guide him now. He was the ultimate antagonist this game, and thus throughout the game, I built up to the Demon as much as possible… Of note, I hinted at him being, in no certain order… Zero (in the Hierophant’s death, mentioning how the demon started out as nothing, a mind of madness… when in reality this referred to Qod’s original identity as DoubleGold before ascending), the KAISERIN (in Warchamp’s death), Lord English (end of Day 5 lynch; the fact that nobody picked up on it was disheartening…), Ganondorf at several points, Ernstrad at some point, and a couple more. Some people noticed, and were guessing up until Relmitos’ reveal, though not as many as I would have liked.

The entire Luigi plot in the flavor was all about the Demon, in addition to being exposition and a sort of anchor for the story: He was undertaking a series of tasks, searching for answers, just as he had in TWBB, but ultimately became aware of the impending doom, and sought out the means to save his world. By attaining for Ganondorf something the Shadow Don desired “You give me my Kingdom… I give you hope”, Ganon granted him the smashball, which the Champion would use to fight the Demon.

Speaking of which, one game mechanic I didn’t mention directly:

The Challenge Phase!
Upon the Demon’s death, the game would enter a stage of apocalypse. The Armageddon timer would be set to the end of the following dayphase; if the Demon was killed midday Day 8, the Challenge Phase would occur Day 9, if the Demon was lynched Day 8, it would occur day 9, etc. This, in flavor, would more or less be the climax of the game; when the Demon was targeted by a successful kill or lynch, he would summon the Tempest, intent on tearing reality apart. The coincident plot would take place inside the Bastion itself, building up to the story’s climax.

The rules for the Challenge Phase were as follows: The Champion would die. Luigi would give the smashball to the champion at this point, one way or another. If the people failed to pick a Champion, be it by tied vote or any other means, the Demon would destroy the world and win the game. Weldar and I were talking about having a tied vote be a doublelynch to make it a bit more balanced however, as I didn’t want a doomed faction forcing a Demon win by tying the champ vote. We hadn’t fully decided though, and thankfully didn’t have to.

A few things of note: If the Demon were killed with a power that resulted in a level 5 death (Sealed Away, Banished, etc), there would be no challenge phase. Similarly, if he was the last hostile faction, and his death resulted in a Town victory, the Champion would either be Luigi or a full-town effort, meaning no challenge phase. If a hostile faction reached 1v1 upon his death, the person they endgamed would be champion, so also no challenge phase.

As for the Challenge Phase itself, it was the Demon’s three targets who would survive being championed, though I was contemplating extending this to the entire Coalition, and hadn’t fully decided. Furthermore, the only person who could actually KILL the Demon in the process rather than simply banish it was Fedaykin, the Usurper of Heaven. Either way, the Demon upon defeat would be out irrevocably. The only difference between Fedaykin killing him and someone else killing him was that Fedaykin would kill him in the flavor, preventing him from ever returning…

Also, had the town failed to champion someone, Relmitos would have got his hands on the smashball…

How Relmitos did:

For starters, this role, alongside the Support system, is probably the thing I’m most proud of this game, (which is kind of ironic since he had NO Support, the only role in this game to lack it, and furthermore had and the thing I had planned earliest: Since I wrote the Game 15 finale, I intended to have the demon I became come here, to the Kingdom, for Game 20. The main concept I was toying here was essentially another form of godrole: Rather than someone who was invincible and knew everything, it was someone hard to defeat who had powers that would intrinsically alter the way the game worked.

The role’s goal was an exceedingly challenging one simply because he had to not only win as an SK, but had no true killing powers of his own until he took down the three hardest-to-kill roles in the entire game: Had he reached a 1 vs 1 scenario against one of his targets, he would lose. Also, a quick note: the Ascendant Demon had no Support, and furthermore anyone he visited on a given phase could not be successfully Preached that phase. This fucked with things to a healthy degree.

To help slightly, Relm was given nightkill immunity until his targets were dead, and furthermore had a number of powers to help with this, but they were unstable and couldn’t be thrown down lightly, as they required expert timing… That was one of the beautiful things about this role: While he had a LOT of power, he had very little control over how it was used. For his abilities to be effective, Relmitos had to steer the town in the right direction while not exposing himself, as his abilities more or less empowered the public to cause more damage, rather than giving Relmitos an edge, and all could backfire on him. All four of the potentially lethal abilities (Call the Tempest, Miasma, Hand of God, Vortex) relied primarily on the town itself to determine who fell victim, as they were all geared around lynches. The Vortex was the one he had the most control over, and Relmitos knew this fully well.

He needed perfect timing and incredible focus to execute this role, and he had both in great measure.

When Relmitos received this role, he told me he showed it to his friend, and his bro's reaction was "Well, you're gonna lose. But you'll have a lot of fun losing." The advice I gave him was more or less "yes, it's a hard role, but you need to have fun with it. Try not to worry about getting under heavy suspicion, play it like you played game 19, and you'll do well." And he took this to heart. Relmitos, rather than playing his classic scum strategy of laying low throughout the beginning and hoping to make a big play at the end, opted to play exactly like a Game 9 townie, and came out from the gate running. Day 1 he was one of the primary players to exploit the DF/DRTJR connection, and Day 2 he continued this, going so far as to pick apart their respective posts and textwall against them collectively. He scanned td that day, immediately discovering one of his targets, but decided, wisely so, not to act: intending on Vortexing his first two targets as soon as he discovered them. He maintained about the usual Day 1 level of activity most people have, analyzing things as they came up, staying observant, all-around looking very good, to the point that Weldar, himself quite a proficient townie, saw Relmitos as a likely innocent player. Very well done. Night 1 Weldar thus jailed Relmitos, sending him a memo to communicate and try to work together. Relmitos' response made Weldar swing the other way, as it seemed he was trying to make excuses for why he wouldn't tell Weldar his role (and also said he's usually against roleclaiming, when in the past he hasn't hesitated), but Weldar was killed that night, so it didn't matter.

Day 2 he picked his game up a notch further, continuing his attack on DRTJR and DarkFalco alongside SurgePox (which was ironic, because to Surge, seeing Relmitos also pursue DF made him think he was in with a strong townie, and vice versa Razz If I recall correctly, each player believed the other to be townie at that point, which just goes to strengthen their early preformance). Unfortunately, this brought him under a little fire, as he made this massive wall pointing at the connection between DF, DRTJR, and Raya, going so far as to pick apart their respective posts and textwall against them collectively, when both DRTJR and DF seemed mildly confirmed at this point.... Furthermore, he then voted on TJ; which wasn't following his suspicion at all, and gave the appearance of knowing that DF/DRTJR/Raya weren't valid lynch targets but also wanting to frame them. Avos immediately voted him from here, and Relmitos became slightly panicked at this point, afraid he had fucked over his game before it truly began. Yet then he proceeded to turn it around and lead on Avos. His counterpush ultimately snowballed into the lynch that brought down the SK.

For the next couple days, he lay very low; his biggest action during this time was activating Hand of God day 3 for the hell of it, knowing Green would use it to take down Snake (and that he himself had very little chance of being targeted by it, so he was probably safe). Snake flipped as Mario, revealing to Relmitos the second of his three targets... EVERYTHING WENT BETTER THAN EXPECTED... When Snake came back Day 4 Relm lost a lot of hope, but continued to play hard, coming back Day 5 and making a long analysis post of almost everyone that resulted in a JGH vote... JGH flipped townie, but the post he made generated a lot of discussion throughout the rest of the dayphase and really looked good for him. Days 6, 7, and 8, he increased his game further each time, getting into wall-wars first with Requiem, the MB, in a hard-fought battle that led to Requiem becoming the top lynch target (though Requiem was exploded, resulting in SpoonMan's lynch), then Day 7 he came up with a massive, beautiful, powerful wall against Warchamp that put the Evil Leader on the defensive. Warchamp retaliated with his final gambit, but Relmitos, alongside both TD (Usurper of Heaven) and Surge (Forsaken King), helped decry him as a liar, and portray the gambit as a trap (complete with Ackbar!). This led to Warchamp's lynch, setting up the lategame, as all three went into Day 8 looking mildly suspicious, Surge and td being the only two under true fire.

Now, before I get into day 8: After Day 1, Relmitos had the worst luck with scans; many of those he scanned were killed shortly after, and he was unable to find his third target (knowing td was one from the day 1 scan, and that Snake was Mario from the Hand of God usage). He had deduced td was probably Usurper based on his gameplay so far, especially his defense of Spoonman, so he basically knew the third target was King Avalanche. He had been avoiding scanning Surge for about two phases, knowing that if Surge was the third target he'd probably be fucked...

...Surge was the third target, as he scanned Night 7. Day 8 opened and he initially thought to put Surge and td in the vortex (Usurper vs Av, would have been awesome), but then realized that Surge was the most likely lynch target, so he vortexed td and Snake instead. As Snake mentioned in the aftermath, this was absolutely brilliant: The two most significant townies (he who could claim Usurper, and he who was confirmed Mario) were placed in a situation where one had to die, and Relmitos was able to push hard against SurgePox and not look scummy for it. The dayphase, as I've described before, exploded into two parallel duels. The short, highly reactive duel between Snake and td has been beaten inside and out. For Surge and Relm.... when Relmitos seemed to be cornering Surge, the Forsaken King pulled a beautiful gambit, claiming with hudsonboy's role, revealing the Demon role PM. This post happened to all but ninja mine, where the Demon sealed Snake and td in a vortex, seemingly verifying Surge's claim. From there, the fight began to slowly swing the other way at first, and Relmitos finally got frusturated, and made one fatal mistake... He woke up the next morning and immediately regretted it, as it was one small post made in frustration that cost him the game... In thread Surge said he knew Relmitos was the demon because Relm was trying to ignore Surge's claims about the demon role, but in reality because Surge was a godfather, and for Relmitos to INSIST that he KNEW 100% that Surge was mafia, when Surge knew there was a Demon role that could determine if someone was his target, raised an instant red flag: Surge immediately knew Relmitos was the demon. Relmitos followed the post up with an amazing wall, what he should have done in the first place, which led to Surge's death, but Surge was able to strike back and actively point out that Relmitos was the ultimate foe.

The Coalition immediately brought a banstick to Relmitos that night, bypassing his immunity and initiating the Challenge Phase Day 9. The Ascendant Demon was defeated in battle by Quaetman, the Superhero, Champion of the People, sent to save the Kingdom, banishing the Ascendant from reality at the last moment with the power of his final smash. The Demon was cast into the void, sealed away, and the world healed.

Relm, you have your misgivings, but I and everyone I've talked to thinks you've played an amazing game here, with the game's hardest role. Even with one hiccup that cost you the game, the rest of your play was great; whatever mistakes you made early on you bounced back from perfectly, you masked yourself as innocent well until your final day, and even then only slipped up by a hair. You're one of the best players we've got on here, just give yourself some more confidence Razz Seriously, great job, and thanks for playing. I'm glad this fell to you.


Last edited by Quaetam on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  SurgePox on Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:23 am

Quaetam wrote:Relm, you have your misgivings, but I and everyone I've talked to thinks you've played an amazing game here, with the game's hardest role. Even with one hiccup that cost you the game, the rest of your play was great; whatever mistakes you made early on you bounced back from perfectly, you masked yourself as innocent well until your final day, and even then only slipped up by a hair. You're one of the best players we've got on here, just give yourself some more confidence Razz Seriously, great job, and thanks for playing. I'm glad this fell to you.
Agreed one million percent

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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  Relmitos on Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:44 am

Just gonna pick pieces out of this to clarify a few things. (This is a huge wall, so I'm just gonna throw it in a spoiler tag)
Spoiler:

Quaetam wrote:

The role’s goal was an exceedingly challenging one simply because he had to not only win as an SK, but had no true killing powers of his own until he took down the three hardest-to-kill roles in the entire game: Had he reached a 1 vs 1 scenario against one of his targets, he would lose. Also, a quick note: the Ascendant Demon had no Support, and furthermore anyone he visited on a given phase could not be successfully Preached that phase. This fucked with things to a healthy degree.

This was absolutely brutal. Absolutely no idea how I was supposed to take out all three of them with those jank abilities I had almost no control over, beyond vortex, and even with vortex I wasn't able to pick who I wanted dead, it was up to everyone else.

So.....who all did I ruin support for, you make it sound like I actually managed to stop some preachings. Would amuse me.

To help slightly, Relm was given nightkill immunity until his targets were dead, and furthermore had a number of powers to help with this, but they were unstable and couldn’t be thrown down lightly, as they required expert timing

This confused the hell out of me. The bolded part, that is. It kinda boiled down to: "Congratulations! You've successfully killed the hardest people to kill in the game! You've lost your night kill immunity as your reward." I even told him "Hmm, wondering if I should actually TRY to kill every target off." The sheer thought of being night-killable after accomplishing such a feat boggled my mind and made me question it. To which Q responded with, "Do what your role is supposed to do!"

… That was one of the beautiful things about this role: While he had a LOT of power, he had very little control over how it was used. For his abilities to be effective, Relmitos had to steer the town in the right direction while not exposing himself, as his abilities more or less empowered the public to cause more damage, rather than giving Relmitos an edge, and all could backfire on him.

This is the main reason I used Hand of God when I did. I just didn't want to be slain by my own ability, and I knew the longer I waited after sitting on a "The guy that just hung gets to pick a target" ability, the more likely I would be the target. I just wanted to use it before I became the target. This is the only power that was DIRECTLY affected by just one player. One player got to pick whoever died. Twas my most random power, and I'd say unpredictable, but GA made it perfectly easy to guess who was gonna be hit.

All four of the potentially lethal abilities (Call the Tempest, Miasma, Hand of God, Vortex) relied primarily on the town itself to determine who fell victim, as they were all geared around lynches. The Vortex was the one he had the most control over, and Relmitos knew this fully well.


This, I had plans for all of them. They were as such:

Call the Tempest: My plan with this was to assassinate whoever I wanted whilst framing someone at the same time. Steer the argument to get someone of my choosing voted on fast and early the next phase. First vote, and I'd slap it down if it was my target. Would be perfect; kill someone I wanted, while framing some other guy. Plan B with this was for late game. If I was one of the few left standing, I'd use this to assassinate whoever I wanted myself without relying on what was basically an RNG generation. I decided this would be the only way I'd get Snake killed. Last until the last couple of phases, and hit him with it. I didn't last that long, unfortunately.

Miasma: There was two plans for this one, similar to CtT. Just use it towards the end of the game, again using it to hang the two people I wanted dead, if at all possible. The second use was simply a, save my ass and pray that I'm not the target. BUT, I had a much more dastardly plan for this one that I'll get to in awhile.

Hand of God: Already went over this, no need to expand on it further.

Vortex: Well.....yeah, same as HoG.

There was that one ability I had, that I had ABSOLUTELY no idea what to do with, that Paradigm Shift. Looking at it, it was always a "What if I give the target a power that's not that dangerous to me directly, like the doc, and potentially turn him/her into something like a vig or a cop, both of which would've been dangerous to me, so I just sat on it. The ONE thing I wanted to use it on, was DF when she claimed what she did. That was more of a "Aw hell, she can do whatever she wants? Let's not put up with that". Q wouldn't let me do that unfortunately. The last night I was alive I considered hitting Eisen with it for the lol's. But alas, this ability was never used.

He needed perfect timing and incredible focus to execute this role, and he had both in great measure.

No kidding Razz

When Relmitos received this role, he told me he showed it to his friend, and his bro's reaction was "Well, you're gonna lose. But you'll have a lot of fun losing."

Close, but not quite right. I showed the whole PM to my brother, not some friend. Heh, he even threw some suggestions at me for what I could possibly do, but I didn't agree with him on the possible uses, so I never did. I don't even remember what those ideas were anymore.

The advice I gave him was more or less "yes, it's a hard role, but you need to have fun with it. Try not to worry about getting under heavy suspicion, play it like you played game 19, and you'll do well." And he took this to heart. Relmitos, rather than playing his classic scum strategy of laying low throughout the beginning and hoping to make a big play at the end, opted to play exactly like a Game 9 townie, and came out from the gate running.

I actually do that as a townie for the most part, or I used to at least. I'm almost never a mafian. And that's fine, I prefer being a townie in these games. More amusing.

Day 1 he was one of the primary players to exploit the DF/DRTJR connection, and Day 2 he continued this, going so far as to pick apart their respective posts and textwall against them collectively. He scanned td that day, immediately discovering one of his targets, but decided, wisely so, not to act: intending on Vortexing his first two targets as soon as he discovered them. He maintained about the usual Day 1 level of activity most people have, analyzing things as they came up, staying observant, all-around looking very good, to the point that Weldar, himself quite a proficient townie, saw Relmitos as a likely innocent player. Very well done. Night 1 Weldar thus jailed Relmitos, sending him a memo to communicate and try to work together. Relmitos' response made Weldar swing the other way, as it seemed he was trying to make excuses for why he wouldn't tell Weldar his role (and also said he's usually against roleclaiming, when in the past he hasn't hesitated), but Weldar was killed that night, so it didn't matter.

I really lol'd D2. Raya was drunk at the time, and when she posted something against me saying something about me wearing a tin foil hat, THAT I was scared of. Luckily for me, she never returned to that train of thought. Dodged a bullet there. As for my time as a jail bird, now I know better. Post a wall of some kind. Something that makes sense. I don't know what that bit about role claiming is about, I don't remember ever role claiming in any mafia game.

Day 2 he picked his game up a notch further, continuing his attack on DRTJR and DarkFalco alongside SurgePox (which was ironic, because to Surge, seeing Relmitos also pursue DF made him think he was in with a strong townie, and vice versa Razz If I recall correctly, each player believed the other to be townie at that point, which just goes to strengthen their early preformance). Unfortunately, this brought him under a little fire, as he made this massive wall pointing at the connection between DF, DRTJR, and Raya, going so far as to pick apart their respective posts and textwall against them collectively, when both DRTJR and DF seemed mildly confirmed at this point.... Furthermore, he then voted on TJ; which wasn't following his suspicion at all, and gave the appearance of knowing that DF/DRTJR/Raya weren't valid lynch targets but also wanting to frame them. Avos immediately voted him from here, and Relmitos became slightly panicked at this point, afraid he had fucked over his game before it truly began. Yet then he proceeded to turn it around and lead on Avos. His counterpush ultimately snowballed into the lynch that brought down the SK.

I dunno, that push against Avos was mostly Surge. I don't regret having pushed against that trio, as nothing ever came of it.

For the next couple days, he lay very low; his biggest action during this time was activating Hand of God day 3 for the hell of it, knowing Green would use it to take down Snake (and that he himself had very little chance of being targeted by it, so he was probably safe). Snake flipped as Mario, revealing to Relmitos the second of his three targets... EVERYTHING WENT BETTER THAN EXPECTED... When Snake came back Day 4 Relm lost a lot of hope, but continued to play hard,

"Lost a lot of hope" you say? Nay, it was most of it. As stated, I knew the SECOND Snake revived, I wasn't going to get to the SK part of the game. How are you supposed to push on someone who's been officially labeled as a townie while still looking innocent? It can't be done.

coming back Day 5 and making a long analysis post of almost everyone that resulted in a JGH vote... JGH flipped townie, but the post he made generated a lot of discussion throughout the rest of the dayphase and really looked good for him. Days 6, 7, and 8, he increased his game further each time, getting into wall-wars first with Requiem, the MB, in a hard-fought battle that led to Requiem becoming the top lynch target (though Requiem was exploded, resulting in SpoonMan's lynch), then Day 7 he came up with a massive, beautiful, powerful wall against Warchamp that put the Evil Leader on the defensive. Warchamp retaliated with his final gambit, but Relmitos, alongside both TD (Usurper of Heaven) and Surge (Forsaken King), helped decry him as a liar, and portray the gambit as a trap (complete with Ackbar!). This led to Warchamp's lynch, setting up the lategame, as all three went into Day 8 looking mildly suspicious, Surge and td being the only two under true fire.

Ackbar you say?

Spoiler:

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Yeah, I don't know what happened Day 5. I managed to channel my endgame performance of G19, and I don't know how. It just happened. A fair portion of my backup were people in their own factions just looking for an easy lynch, and I supplied a bunch of em.

Now, before I get into day 8: After Day 1, Relmitos had the worst luck with scans; many of those he scanned were killed shortly after, and he was unable to find his third target (knowing td was one from the day 1 scan, and that Snake was Mario from the Hand of God usage). He had deduced td was probably Usurper based on his gameplay so far, especially his defense of Spoonman, so he basically knew the third target was King Avalanche.

Yeah, the only reason I scanned Td first was because he had King Avalanche in his game, and at the time we were still all under the assumption that each host had their own role again, save the hosts who knew they didn't have a role from their own game. Though, even knowing he was a target and he had an Avalanche role in his game, I decided it was the better part of valor NOT to push on him on the grounds of "He might be mafian because he has Avalanche in his own game." Very lucky I knew better then to do that. I'll quote Q on this one, the moment I turned in my scan order(THE first scan)"Lucky Fuck". He told me that so many times during the game. It was fairly easy to figure out who he was after Spoon died and flipped.

He had been avoiding scanning Surge for about two phases, knowing that if Surge was the third target he'd probably be fucked...


True fact. I had been fearing that Surge might be the last target, because I knew that it would result in a wall war. I really, REALLY didn't want to get in a wall war with Surge, knowing full well he could easily get me killed, and he did.

...Surge was the third target, as he scanned Night 7. Day 8 opened and he initially thought to put Surge and td in the vortex (Usurper vs Av, would have been awesome), but then realized that Surge was the most likely lynch target, so he vortexed td and Snake instead.

In retrospect, I should've waited until the next day phase before using the vortex on the grounds of Surge was likely to hang with the assistance of Snake and Td. I thought of that possibility, but I just wanted people dead, and it cost me. Big time.

As Snake mentioned in the aftermath, this was absolutely brilliant: The two most significant townies (he who could claim Usurper, and he who was confirmed Mario) were placed in a situation where one had to die, and Relmitos was able to push hard against SurgePox and not look scummy for it.


He did? Cool!

From there, the fight began to slowly swing the other way at first, and Relmitos finally got frusturated, and made one fatal mistake

Close, but not quite. Disheartened would be the more accurate term. After two days of scum hunting really hard for two days straight for people that really seemed like mafia (to me, at least) and hitting nothing but third parties. After spending my whole day(Quite literally, my whole day. Spent 10 hours at least one day doing nothing but finding things to post about in the topic.) scum hunting hard, hitting two third parties in a row? Twas depressing. Hell, I told Q that I made that one post to purposely get myself hung because I was tired of it. Then I woke up the next day, not sleep deprived and saw the aftermath. My reaction? "Fuck....."

Protip: Don't make mafia posts after midnight. Not a good idea. Being really sleepy and all the above got to me, resulting in disaster.


... He woke up the next morning and immediately regretted it, as it was one small post made in frustration that cost him the game... In thread Surge said he knew Relmitos was the demon because Relm was trying to ignore Surge's claims about the demon role, but in reality because Surge was a godfather, and for Relmitos to INSIST that he KNEW 100% that Surge was mafia, when Surge knew there was a Demon role that could determine if someone was his target, raised an instant red flag: Surge immediately knew Relmitos was the demon. Relmitos followed the post up with an amazing wall, what he should have done in the first place, which led to Surge's death, but Surge was able to strike back and actively point out that Relmitos was the ultimate foe.

As I said, I knew Surge would get me killed if I entered a text wall with him, but it was unavoidable and I had to do it. Sure, my hanging had to do with that one post I made, but I consider it only half of why. The ONE scan Hudson made and gave Surge had a hand in it. He might've guessed something was up, but I highly doubt he would've come to the conclusion that I was the big bad demon had he not gotten that one scan, which was purely an RNG result.

The Coalition immediately brought a banstick to Relmitos that night, bypassing his immunity and initiating the Challenge Phase Day 9.

Thinking about it, I should've used Call the Tempest, but I thought the banstick died with Td. Unfortunately, it wasn't Td that held it. Thus resulting in the end of my game. Probably was better off that way, I don't think I could've BS'd my way out of that. Even if I had used that power, it only would've given me another day phase of spending all of my waking day spamming the topic in a frenzy to live. My only regret was being really sick and mostly unable to do the whole badass demon spont mode I was given the ability to do by Q.

Relm, you have your misgivings, but I and everyone I've talked to thinks you've played an amazing game here, with the game's hardest role. Even with one hiccup that cost you the game, the rest of your play was great; whatever mistakes you made early on you bounced back from perfectly, you masked yourself as innocent well until your final day, and even then only slipped up by a hair. You're one of the best players we've got on here, just give yourself some more confidence Razz Seriously, great job, and thanks for playing. I'm glad this fell to you.

You don't say? Honestly, I'm surprised with getting such praise. Didn't really think I did anything out of the ordinary with how good everyone has become since mafia was introduced to this forum. Heh, really, I was just coasting off the G19 high.

Other funny facts. The WHOLE game I was plotting and scheming, coming up with some great plans. Y'know how we were all surprised how DRTJR didn't go after Raya? I was TOTALLY going to use Hand of God on him, being pretty sure he'd knock off Raya with it. I figured I couldn't lose with that plan, but then he just.....didn't. Plan fail. As Q said, however, EVERYTHING WENT BETTER THEN EXPECTED!!

After mathing it out and looking at my abilities, I deduced I could win the game in a six person left standing scenario, provided a number of things happening. It went a little bit like this. (This whole thing depended on two things: me being the first person to throw down a vote in the first day, and no doc successfully blocking my night kill. Had either of those things happened, this plan would've failed miserably.)

Six people left, me, Snake, and four other random people. I'd drop my assassination move by being the first person to put down a vote and using Call the Tempest(Tea time) to get Snake hung. Upon Snake having been hung, I'd have gained my SK power. Using the SK power, I'd kill off another person at night, bringing the number down to four, me and three other random people. Upon the next day phase, obviously I'd have people throwing their votes on me for assassinating Snake, a confirmed townie. That was when I'd drop Miasma, and that makes two people get lynched. I, however, was immune to being hung this way. I'd throw my vote on one other random player, get him hung as well as me. That would leave it down to three players, me and two others. Well, guess what. I have SK powers. Kill one of the two, and BAM, win for me. *THE MOMENT* I pointed this out to Q, he nerfed Miasma hard. Lesson learned. Don't tell the host great plays like that, they will get ruined.

THAT is why I sat on all of my powers. If I could live until six people left, I won. Did not happen unfortunately.

Well, thanks for the words guys. Means stuff to me.

EDIT: Sig update to reflect my most recent mafia role, I've been meaning to do that. That's why the old one was what it was, with that one character skewering a monster from behind like that. The role I had before I put that in my sig was Assassin. It made sense. I was demon; lots of fire and destruction. Sense was made.

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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  Ansem on Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:06 am

Noone else thinks it's weird that Quaetam essentially fought Quaetam while Quaetam watched from the shadows, and Quaetam wrote about it?

You'd thought noone would notice huh?! Q wants all the awesome power roles for himself! God complex! GOD COMPLEX!!!


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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  Quaetam on Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:33 am

Haha, not quite; the Demon was the only Quaetam role I submitted for this game myself. Raya submitted Hierophant and TD submitted Quaetman... Besides, I wrote you guys upwards of 200 pages for this game, I'm allowed to indulge a little Razz

Relmitos, had you not pointed out the 6-man standing scenario I'd have nerfed that the second you TRIED it; you actually saved yourself a good bit of angst by running it by me beforehand. As I said in the rules, I'm willing to retroactively moderate if I find something ingame that seems to be very, very unbalanced.

As for "not letting you Paradigm Shift Darkfalco", that's not a thing, I recall casually mentioning something like "I'm surprised you're using this now..." and you were like "Meh, I'll save it".

As for the nightkill immunity, it was the same idea as the Usurper Game 10: It was only meant to protect you in the first stage, and help you stay alive while your goal was exceedingly hard. Had I allowed it to continue, you would have been OP.

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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  Fedaykin on Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:50 am

Ansem wrote: Qod complex! QOD COMPLEX!!!

fix'd Razz

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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  SnakeInABox on Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:59 am

Yes like I said, day 8 was probably the most brilliant Mafia Moment we will ever have.

With the Hierophant and the Serial Killer dead, the game was essentially between The ELoE, Coalition, Avalanchians, and The Demon (In my personal opinion being on the Town was pretty much the best way to start the game. It helped even more that Quaetams Mario role ended up playing like my Luigi role) The most important people being the recruiters, that was Surge, Warchamp, Td, and Relm being demon. Warchamp died and passed his recruit and affiliation on to me, who was already by coincidence one of Relmitos' three targets.

The other two targets being Td and Surge. He makes a gambit and BAM day 8 you have a fight to the death between Td and myself in some void (Which might I add Td's attempt to win not a bad one, he played hard) and a fight between Surge and Relmitos outside the void.

Also I have to fucking say that sacrificing Quaetam to destroy the Demon Qod was just god damned beautiful. I can't comment on the fact that the Host was able to slide three different versions of himself into his own god damned game, mostly because there were also technically three versions of ME in the game too. Wink

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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  Doctor Shulk on Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:43 pm

Ansem wrote:Noone else thinks it's weird that Quaetam essentially fought Quaetam while Quaetam watched from the shadows, and Quaetam wrote about it?

You'd thought noone would notice huh?! Q wants all the awesome power roles for himself! God complex! GOD COMPLEX!!!


Yo dawg, I herd u liek Quaetam Razz

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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  Requiem on Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:18 pm

I'd like to make it clear that in the beginning when I had voted on Viero, I totally wasn't thinking about the fact that he was on vacation. I even knew because I was waiting to start a D&D game which he was supposed to be GM-ing. It just slipped my mind at the time of voting. When it was brought to my attention, I switched to DF. Seriously. Those two are just my day one votes. Stop attacking me for it, sheesh!

Other than that, it was fun. Looking forward to the next game.

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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  Raya on Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:00 pm

Sorry for not replying sooner Q!

Wellp, it certainly was a hell of a ride. You overstretched yourself a little with all those posts, but from our perspective it was a jolly good blast. Take a break man, your hands are probably going to fall off Razz

My role was fun, but I have to say I really dislike roles that only have a percentage of working. It makes the game more about luck than skill. It doesn't matter how bad or good a player you are, whether you win or not boils down to a dice throw. I pretty much evolved into a vanilla, which is one of the reasons why I kept my head down, since my death would have been no use to anyone. Still, I like the mechanic change to it being a vote that evolves me. It was pretty tense seeing who would do it and what the result would be!

I totally agree with you about Avos, I'm seriously impressed with what a good player he is. In my game right from the start he was doing all kinds of cunning behind the scenes. Keep it up Avos, you're doing great!

Thanks to everyone as well for making this game a lot of fun. The struggles and back-and-forth were amazing to watch and I really enjoyed it. Biggest thanks of course go to Q for hosting this behemoth so successfully and providing such excellent writeups. Thanks dude Very Happy

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FUCK YOU RAYA.

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Conclusion Post

Post  Quaetam on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:31 pm

I’m handling this post just like I did in game 10: It’s a wrapup, and a textwall of a wrapup, but you all should read it, as it really pulls things together nicely, and has a lot of fun facts about the game.

The Setting:

The story of this game was deeply rooted into both Game 10 and (to a lesser extent) Game 15, and built off of both themes and events established in each. Ultimately, this was the continuation of its predecessor, Game 10… the world was the Mushroom Kingdom, a world wounded by conflict. The nation was ravaged by the rampage of the Butcher, by the mafia stalemate that followed, and upon the arrival of the Avalanchians after the Singularity destroyed their world, it was knocked off balance. For two days they tried for peace, for two days they attempted to hold the Kingdom together… then Peach died to an unknown assassin, killed by a bullet meant for another man, and it all fell apart. The four mafias clashed with each other, with the police force. There was no end in sight, as all sought to reshape the world in their own image, and all fought with everything they had to come out on top.

But out of the chaos, the Coalition united, driving away Matt Mercer, the Admin, he who had sought peace in the world he’d created... They who had caused the Rising War reaped its benefits; they who had broken the stalemate and allowed conflict to overtake the Kingdom used the conflict to mask their rise, as they allowed their foes to work against each other. And one by one they struck down their greatest enemies, ending the Admin, the Manipulator, the Pocket Monster, and finally the Great Negotiator, as they rose from nothing to claim everything.

As the smoke cleared, it was Fedaykin, the Upriser, now Usurper of Heaven, who spoke to the people below him preaching words of order, of prosperity, and of hope. The new age was shaped by his patient but ruthless hand, as he built towards an ideal, towards a Utopia, and placed himself at the head of the world. The Coalition’s first creation was the golden throne of the Usurper, a simple, but elaborate monument to their power, placed atop a platform in a square in the center of the city. From here they ruled, from here they spoke their words, their decrees, and from here they passed their judgments. This was Ascendancy Square, complete with its great banners, its viewscreens, and all the terror it inspired. Here they ruled with an iron fist, as their opposition was slowly, inevitably silenced.

The world was theirs, and slowly, from the ashes that were the Kingdom, they began to rebuild. For three months, they Purged the people of all dissent, ruthlessly eliminating all who opposed them. And for three more thereafter, they began to rebuild, putting the people to work on the Kingdom’s infrastructure, on the great Bastion from which they ruled, itself serving as something between a center for Kingdom organization and authority, and a complete indulgence in the Coalition’s wealth, power, and deification. And the people persisted, living out their quiet lives, beneath the iron will of the moderators.

Then the Tempest struck. I described Game 15’s endgame here, so I won’t go through it again. The Demon fought Raya atop the Ebony Tower, and their duel seared through reality, damaging the fabric of spacetime, allowing the worlds to flow together. The Kingdom was ravaged by the storm of the end, and the people, all faith in the Coalition already stretched thin, were shaken by its presence. Their faith in the new age was broken.

And, as if on queue, the new arrivals made their move. The Avalanchians raised their flag over a tower at the edge of town, and while it was immediately burned, like the Kingdom it had belonged to, the air of change began to creep upon the world…

The Story:

While Game 10 was about the shaping of a new world, about the struggle to take control of the world and decide the new age, and Game 15 (post-host-switch) was about desolation, futility, and despair, this game wrapped both themes together, and used them to form a solid, more powerful message: This story in many ways was about the conflict between despair, as epitomized in the end of Game 15, and of Game 10’s struggle for a new world; it furthermore dealt with the idea that everything that was fought for in the prequel (game 10) was pointless, nay, that all we work for is, in the end, void; with the idea that all our dreams ultimately come unto nothing. And finally, the theme of this game was fully and absolutely tied in with its name; Those Who Challenge Fate. This game was about the people who stood against that futility, about those who were told that their fate was oblivion, but stood against it, denied that fate. It established this strong idea of hopelessness and then struck against it, creating a good philosophical background to it all.

Very in line with this idea was the system of factions and support, and furthermore, the themes and directions I allowed each role to take. See, as has been mentioned previously, the game didn’t have a concrete mafia, and furthermore, there were no concrete ‘good guys’ and ‘bad guys’ with some rather obvious exceptions. Instead, each faction pursued its own vision of righteousness, each faction fought against the very notions of futility and despair.

The Coalition seeks to build a new age, and will stop at nothing to achieve it. In seeking a better tomorrow, they are willing to put people through hell today. The Usurper, Fedaykin, was an idealist, drawing his power not merely from his strength, but from his force of will, his indomitable intent. The three who followed him did so out of recognition of his resolve, not merely intimidation. Together, they’ve burned the world to the ground only to rebuild it from the ashes, cleansing corruption, Purging dissent, reaching for Utopia without tolerance for any who questioned their vision. They were an utter dictatorship, a brutal, oppressive regime, but out to create Utopia, desiring the better world they came into power promising, at any cost. To shape the new age, they wielded an iron grip, depicting themselves as gods, as undefeatable, imperturbable deities.

And their faction setup was meant to reflect all aspects of this. Through the Arbiter, they controlled life, they had a power that denied the irrevocable, the absolute. Through the executioner, the Arisen Moderator, they controlled death, they passed ultimate judgment on those who they deemed unworthy. Through the Preacher, they spread their words, their promises, and utterly dominated the hearts and minds of the people. And finally, the Usurper, and his impossible strength, his undeniable vision and intelligence, was both the final word of the Coalition, and the ultimate symbol of their godhood, seemingly untouchable, unwavering atop his throne. They would rule as gods, with no tolerance for dissent, no room for questioning. And they would dominate fate by force, denying the world they saw as corrupt, the futility of the old ways, through sheer might.

The Avalanchians, on the other hand, were quite opposed to this idea. They saw the Coalition as corrupt, they believed that all the Usurper had done was for his own sake, for his own control of the heavenly throne. They witness the squalor of the people, and the splendor of the Guardians, and know the Coalition has caused all this. They believe the Coalition, despite their surface intent of bettering the world, truly wished nothing more than to deify themselves. In a lot of ways, through the Avalanchians, the Coalition’s initial theme from Game 10 came full circle; for that was how the Usurper came into power, casting aside the Admin, the regime he had seen as corrupt, and fighting, at least by his word, for a better world.

The old regime cried out against the new, and at last entered a state of open rebellion. The Avalanchians fought in the name of freedom, in the name of justice, believing themselves liberators of the oppressed, desiring to return to the days of old, noting the futility behind the Coalition’s endeavors .They sought to break the people free of the dismal future the Coalition had given them. They wished to return to the golden days of Avalanchia, seeing the Coalition’s Utopia as nothing more than a Kingdom locked in endless decay.

And when Avalanche arrived in the Kingdom, and he saw Queen Snake, his former lover, second in line to the throne of his lost Kingdom, she who had once helped him build a great land, standing beside the Usurper, it sparked at last his desire to see the world change, and forced him across a moral boundary… while he fought for the people’s hearts and minds, he was willing to kill indiscriminately all who stood in his way... he had become almost as ruthless as those he sought to overcome. His cause was noble, his belief ultimately one in equality, and in freedom, but he had damned himself to achieve it.

Yet, the Coalition in turn saw the Avalanchian’s vision as flawed. Avalanchia was a great place to live, with a high standard of living, but the people were used like playthings by ministers who saw them as little more than pawns. They fell victim to petty internal struggles, to falling knives, rampaging robots, whatever else, and there was thus fear and injustice, terror in the old Kingdom. The idea that the model of the lost Kingdom could bring happiness to this world was, in the eyes of the rising angels, absurd… it was useless. The Preacher, former Queen, recognized this, as did the other moderators, and so they stood against the Avalanchians’ mission. Each major faction believed the other to be completely corrupt; each saw the dream of the other as naught more than futility, tying into the theme of the game as outlined above. And neither side was truly noble; the Coalition oppressing the people, forcing the emergence of Utopia through brute strength… the Avalanchians, preaching words of justice yet killing indiscriminately like the mafia of old. Neither side was truly righteous.

The Evil League of Evil, on the other hand, was formed to combat Quaetman, but ultimately was comprised of those who believed Avalanchia corrupt, noticing how the government squabbled (this is how I’ve interpreted it, anyways, Snake knows better than I Razz). They aren’t out to destroy the world, but to destroy Avalanchia. The Evil Leader, Snake, knows what the old world was like, and he’ll have none of it. Furthermore, he’s been here since the Rising War. He saw the Coalition come to be, he saw how the corruption of the old Kingdom gave way to that of the new, he sees a land where people are oppressed under a man arrogant enough to call himself a god, and he’ll have none of that either. So he’s out for himself, to shape his own vision of the world, one not marred by corruption, by lies and pathetic deification. The Evil Leader wanted to rule the world, without a doubt, but he probably was the most righteous of the three, to an extent. Yet he WAS ruthless. He was an actor, and life, to him, his great work.

Indeed, no side was truly benevolent, yet none was malicious. All three factions sought their own vision by their own means, the two major factions seeing each other as futile, and desiring to break away from the destiny promised by their opponents’ visions, to challenge the fate arbitrated by the wills of their foes.

To highlight this, in the fluff I portrayed the three factions in the brightest light when they were out of power, focusing on their virtues, yet reversed that when they came into control, highlighting their negatives, their vices. The Coalition, while in power, was brutal, oppressive, but as they lost control, we, as the readers, were reminded that their goal still stood strong, their desire for a new age was genuine. The Avalanchians, while out of power, were the revolutionary heroes, yet once they seized control, it became clear that they were no better than the regime they had replaced. This was amplified, of course, by the choice of Surge to make Avalanche (playing as Spontaneous Combustion) into the new King…. The Mad King… For the Evil League, SnakeInABox was portrayed as a hero, a renegade, a dangerous man, but a champion of the people, and died as a martyr while out of power, pointing out that it was the peoples’ own fault that the world was this way, that they had the power to change things. Had he come into power, his more evil side would have shown.

Yet, there was another flavor-system I had in place… see, the flavor of each faction was heavily anchored to its leader. This included Mario, who was literally a Town Leader role, though he wasn’t a Leader in the Support System, merely a 2-support-value influential figure. But of the supporting factions, their flavor would, upon the leader’s death, shift towards whoever held the recruit power.

For the Avalanchians, the new Preacher would actually be their new King, resulting in massive flavor changes: Under Viero, the use of clones would become commonplace, and things would very much return to how the Coalition feared; the regime toying with the people like they were nothing, subjecting them to experiments that were the product of a mind of madness. Under Spades, things would have been AWFUL. He’d be a straight up evil tyrant, just not giving a fuck about anything. He’d kill people on whims, etc. The Mad King… you all know how it went. He rose to power and then proceeded to let the people languish, basking in his own ‘glory’. He was utterly insane, and a terrible ruler. Quaetman was probably the best successor for the Avalanchians, as he would be the one to truly rule with justice, being a superhero and all… he would care about the people and genuinely work to better their lives. Youngser Joey would have been a bit of a hilarious ruler.

For the Coalition, this was a bit more subtle, as they were exactly as their name described, a Coalition… While the Usurper was a clear leader, below him things were less concrete. However, the Preacher, as their main voice, as a major figure in Kingdom history, would certainly step up, and here, her doubts, as described when I posted her role, would begin to show, as the first flip would have Peach’s assassin revealed to be fed. Fedaykin had been her idol in Avalanche’s absence, though Raya was NOT a passive queen, and with him dead… the Coalition would continue to drive towards the Usurper’s vision, but perhaps a little less ruthlessly, a little less certain, a bit more willing to work with their detractors, as she was when they were out of power, and the world was ending. The Arisen Moderator would have actually made the Coalition more brutal, more dominating, and more ruthless, as the Coalition’s embodiment of death. Indeed, when he received the Preach power, it was hard for me to not totally portray the Coalition as evil at that point. As for the Arbiter? Under him, the Coalition would have remained about where it was on the ruthlessness scale, but gained much more of an emphasis on the pseudo-religious aspects of their rule (the fallen angels, godhood, resurrections, etc).

And for the League, the flavor was left more open… Snake himself was actually fairly neutral; ruthless and willing to stop at nothing to achieve a goal that was actually fairly benevolent. Beyond him, I was going to improvise depending who was picked. Mario was an absolutely beautiful choice, as it highlighted Snake’s martyrdom at the time of his demise in-fluff, and focused on the League’s mission of championing the people. All thanks to Warchamp’s choice in successor, I was delivered the perfect opportunity to drive the story’s theme home: Mario, hero of the people, awoke once more, rose a fucking army, saw the fates the higher powers had decreed them, and stood against it. He denied the futility, the hopelessness, at last coming into his own as a true hero. When he was in power, I focused less on personal negatives ALA the other factions, and more on the issue of: Can we ever rebuild? Can the Kingdom possibly survive?

Despite this parity that I’m rather proud of, despite the extent to which the various factions were portrayed as benevolent while out of power, yet malicious in power, highlighting their positives or negatives depending on their position (and to a lesser extent the current standing of the Support race), this game did have true heroes, true villains.
Kyle, the Hierophant, was as mentioned before based on literally me, thrown into Dragnia, and then into the world I myself wrote. I know these characters, I know how to play them. I’m the closest thing, aside from Qod who was literally a deity, to a god for the Mushroom Kingdom, due to the fact that I created it (based on Matt Mercer’s creation which was based on Nintendo’s creation, yadda yadda Razz). I know esxactly what to do to worm my way into power, just as I did in Leknaat in DbtD, only a thousand times more effective. Ironically, the MB this game was one of the most benevolent parties. Kyle seeks to free the world of corruption and return it to the people, nothing short of that… He understands the visions of the major factions, but recognizes that the Coalition’s ruthlessness stops any chance of their vision’s success, and the Avalanchians’ desire is too marred by bitterness and rage to ever bear fruit to anything righteous.

So he, the Hierophant, does it himself. He seeks to play the system to bring about a better world. He rises through the ranks, and in the process he abandons his humanity for the sake of a better future, crossing his moral barrier tenthfold. He wishes power to the people, but to achieve it, is willing to play them like pawns. Any victory he earned would inherently be phyrric due to the method he used to attain it, but when it came down to either manipulation or slaughter, Kyle chose the method he deemed less bloodthirsty. The dark side of this owuldn’t become apparent unless ingame Kyle managed to help eliminate all three support factions, at which point his presence would be more clear, and he would become a major story player.

That’s Kyle’s vision for fate; very similar, as it should be, to my own… that fate should belong to the people, that the future is shaped by those who care for it and fight for it. Yet the Hierophant has sacrificed his humanity, his morality, willing to do what is necessary to challenge destiny. His final play, charging the Usurper in a desperate attempt, was thus entirely fitting.

On the other end, however, this game had two clear antagonists.

First was Kirby. There isn’t much I need to explain because you all know this character well. Brilliant, criminal mastermind… while he’s lesser of the two antagonists, he was as intimidating as fuck. And his vision of fate, his vision of the world, is one of fire, and ashes. Where most people this game sought to challenge fate, to challenge the futility of the world, or of their opponents’ visions, Kirby sought to exacerbate it, to slowly draw it out, to burn the Kingdom to the ground as the people watch and recognize their own uselessness, and come to understand it was all in vain. He’s a sadistic fuck, and I’d write him as such. His departure from the game even served to further his goal, and this heighten the game’s theme, pmentioning that it would all be in vain, and relishing in the peoples’ despair and fear.

And finally, we come unto the Ascendant Demon. He was a truly terrifying force, not merely in power, but in what he represented. All the other factions, even Kirby, have a vision for fate. All the others have a reason to challenge destiny. The Coalition, to shape a new world by force, at any cost… the Avalanchians, to hearken back to an old age, one some view as paradise, others as damnation… the Evil League, to rid the world of the corrupt oppressors, no matter what the price, no matter what need be done… the Hierophant, to similarly sacrifice his humanity, making concessions at a personal level to bring about hope, to truly ensure a better world, even if he must do unspeakable things… and Kirby, to allow fate to run its prescribed course, to bring suffering onto the people as they watch all their efforts be in vain, as the Kingdom ignites around them and crumbles to dust.

The Demon, however, does not wish to challenge fate. He wishes to destroy it. He wants to obliderate destiny. His mission places him outside the main theme of the game, standing utterly against the rest of it. The demon certainly highlighted the futility of it all in his banter during his Game 15 duel with Raya, as that was what he embodied, and this continued here with Quaetman. However, here, he seeks to first destroy hope, destroy all the people hold dear, and then to utterly erase reality, destroying all that was, all that is, all that will be, and in doing so, utterly destroy whatever future may lie ahead. He wished to destroy fate. Qod’s quest was a philosophical one, and, given the nature of the game, a terrifying one, and one that, in the end, made him the primary antagonist; where Kirby wished to see the suffering of the people, where he wished to lead them into the darkness, Qod wished to destroy even that, and leave nothing in its wake. He was the true foe, beyond all others, however the rest of the affiliations lined up.

And in the end, you all know how it played out. Kirby left the world with a foreboding message, that it was all in vain, and each faction struggled against that. The Avalanchians fought both valiantly and ruthlessly for freedom. The Evil Leader and the Hierophant sacrificed themselves in a bid to end the Coalition, reigniting the people by their actions. The Usurper maintained his grip on the world until the last, finally allowing Mario to escape the Vortex Day 8, recognizing that the man in red represented the best chance to save their world, that he had the best chance to challenge fate. And the Demon was banished, that fate of oblivion was denied, just as the future was allowed to exist. And as the Coalition’s dreams died atop a burning cathedral, as the final Avalanchian raged against his regime’s end, Mario himself allowed me to tie it all together, focusing on the apparent futility in all they had fought for, as the survivors walked amidst a desolate land. In the end, when given the chance to take the world for his own, Mario saw the path that would lie ahead of him, and smashed the golden throne, breaking the cycle of hopelessness, of futility and despair. He refused to seize the throne, and in doing so, proved that things can change, that there is hope for the future.

He challenged fate and won.

Notes on Game Balance:

In terms of difficulty of win condition, it more or less was, from easiest to hardest, like this:

New Kingdom of Avalanchia -> Town -> Coalition of Moderators -> Evil League of Evil -> SK >= Hierophant (though Hierophant can vary quite a bit) -> Ascendant Demon

The reasoning for this was, at the top end, because while the town was powerful, and had some pretty good win conditions, the Avalanchians, with how they were set up, had a very good chance at winning as EITHER a mafia or a mason group; the town had a relatively even chance to win with either the Avalanchians or Coalition, but with how Avalanchia was handled, they had just as much of a chance to win as a mafia as a town group, which would cause a town loss, so they're slightly above. (For a while, Weldar and I really predicted that the Avalanchians would win as a mafia group, actually. Day 8 was what changed that, with the Usurper going down, allowing the flip, as well as Viero getting modkilled, which really didn’t help the team much, as he’s worth about 1.5 people as yakuza, and had good powers).

The town itself was very powerful and had quite a good chance to win following one of the factions, but given the high chance for Avalanchia to win as a mafia, pure townies actually come in second. This is right in line with the balance of a normal game.

For the Coalition, they're put below the town because for them to be ousted, chances are the Usurper of Heaven would need to die, in which case they're down to three people, with no Godfather (and no Leader in Support). Furthermore, they were outnumbered by the Avalanchians, which gave them a slight disadvantage as a hostile faction in comparison… Four people is very small for a mafia team in a 28 man game. This remained balanced because they likely weren’t going to flip until midgame-lategame anyways due to how the Support system operated, and thus a smaller team was entirely viable. Either way, this put them very slightly below their people on the chance-to-win scale.

Part of the balance of the Evil League came in the full knowledge that if the Coalition was dwindled early, and the Avalanchians took control on, say, day 4 or something, the game wouldn’t simply be over; the Avalanchians couldn’t steamroll because their control was by no means assured. Also relevant here was the rule that if one major faction was eliminated, the other could no longer take control, only be ousted by the Evil League. This ensured that there would almost always be a mafia team, and that the town’s win was almost as much in question as in any other mafia game.

The ELoE had a lot of properties of third parties, but in my eyes fell in the same category as the two regimes… a ‘faction’, something between town and mafia, but not quite either, and yet too tied into the win conditions of those two archetypes to be considered third party. Essentially, the ELoE was a one-man team, and hidden from the Coalition and Avalanchians: They had the advantage of surprise. Furthermore, the +1 bonus to their recruiter, who was also their Leader at game start, gave them a bit of a kickstart in the area of support. That said, the Evil League is still put below the Coalition, Town, and Avalanchians: First, while they had the +1 bonus to support, their permanent support still paled in comparison to the major factions’… the ELoE had permanent support of 3 out / 5 in, while the Coalition, for example, was 5 out / 7 in, and the Avalanchians were 6 out / 8 in. For them to seize control, they would have quite a task ahead of them. The stealth factor certainly helped with this, but it was contrasted with the major factions’ greater manpower and a near-guarantee of the others being able to pass on their recruits while ELoE would have to hope they had at least one player under their wing. Furthermore, even with Warchamp’s decaying NK immunity, there were enough chances for unblockable kills of varying degree that there was a decent chance of him going down, and when he was gone, the maximum permanent support for the ELoE would be 3 (if he passed it onto Mario or the Ice Climbers). For the ELoE to win the support battle, a lot of things had to go right. Furthermore, they had no kill power at first; they could only gain one in certain ways (if ousted from power, if preached to by the Forsaken King, if it became impossible for them to win the preach battle when out of power), and additionally if they seized control, both major factions would go hostile, making it much, much harder for the town to win. So the ELoE would either have to win as a SK in certain situations, or as a member of a town up against two mafia groups. Not an easy feat, but the chance to flip still kept them above the three third parties.

Speaking of whom, we have the Hierophant, the Serial Killer, and the Ascendant Demon. I’m not counting Eevee, because he could join literally any side Razz.

Out of these three, I find the Hierophant, and any MB for that matter, hard to place, at least in relation to the SK, because his significance varied widely depending on his choice of pawn. Had Requiem chosen a great pawn, such as the Forsaken King or Usurper, he would have been in a very powerful position; not as good as any of the major factions, but certainly above the minor faction and third parties. Yet, had he chosen smaller, less significant pawn roles, as he did (not a statement on the players, just on the roles themselves, mind you Razz) , he would certainly remain at risk, and with no true killing powers of his own, his ability to influence the game came solely out of player creativity and his own ability to remain out of suspicion.

The SK had no pawn abilities, essentially denying him a second vote, but could still have a plethora of powers of his own, even without pawns, and was able to kill. This ability to affect the game in my eyes put him above the Hierophant in potential to win slightly. That said, with the Hierophant’s ability to choose good pawns, and thus influence the rest of the game by controlling others’ actions, he could vary widely, and be placed well above the SK with the right role…

So I say, more or less, SK >= Hierophant. Kirby eases out Kyle, but only slightly.

As for the Demon, in my eyes there’s no question that he’s the hardest role here. I compare him to the Usurper Game 10, only without teammates. Essentially, it’s taking the Serial Killer’s job, removing Kirby’s ability to have other powers, and giving him five one-shots in that place, five abilities that had to be used with perfect timing to be truly effective, and thus didn’t improve his standing that much. Furthremore, his targets were exceptionally difficult to defeat: The Forsaken King and Usurper of Heaven each had normal nightkill immunity, and due to their factional influence weren’t exceptionally likely to both be lynched. And Mario… even if Mario died, by anything but a level 5 kill (sealed away/banished/vanished), he would have a second life, and thus be highly confirmed. Even IF the Demon had managed to take them all out, he’d still have to go win as basically a vanilla SK with whatever abilities he had left over from Phase 1. Ultimately he had to take out the three hardest roles, and then win as a SK (itself a hard task), with nothing left to help him except a slew of powers that weren’t entirely under his control, however awesome and powerful they each were. Hard job is hard, hard role is hard.

Max Deaths in One Cycle:

Well, for this to happen, it would have to occur Day 3, and a few things would need to have gone down before it. First, Natu must be a bomb, and Kirby must be one as well. This means that early on day or night 1 or 2 one or two bombs must have died, and one way or another all people involved were revived, by a combination of Natu, Amaterasu, and the Arbiter, or maybe the Req role depending how he played it. Perhaps Kirby was protected as he killed a bomb, and the other bomb tried to take the Demon, Usurper, King, or Leader with him.

Point is, there comes a phase where nobody is currently dead and Kirby and Natu both have latent bomb powers. Natu must also have a killing ability, by the way, meaning she had to visit two people at night, and had to have led a lynch, perhaps on the dead bomb, evolving to have two powers. Let’s assume that this happens Day 3. Also, I’m going to assume the Requiem role (the gambler/enigma) has primed one person to explode, or poisoned them, either way. I’m assuming this because it happened like three or four times this game.

Also building up to this phase, we must pay attention to the demon’s actions: The previous dayphase (our assumed Day 2), past midday, he must use either Miasma or the Dimensional Vortex. This ensures that the power will come into effect Day 3. That night, he uses the other power, which will also come into effect Day 3. The effect of this is that, in addition to the lynch Day 3, one person is swallowed by the Miasma, everyone has two Votes and two Saves (saves being vote to save from vortex), and two people are trapped in the vortex. Now, if Mario uses his doublelynch as well, he could string the third-place lynch-leader into death as well. And, if the votes for vortex-saving are tied, the vortex will claim BOTH its victims.

The effect of this is a total of five kills already. One by lynch, one extra lynch by Mario, one extra lynch by Miasma, and two more by Qod’s Vortex. Now, Qod could use Hand of God during the dayphase itself (as he hasn’t used a power yet, remember; he used Vortex or Miasma Night 2, and the other Night 3). If all three lynches (the one normal lynch, the miasma, and Mario’s lynch) were tied, they would ALL be given voidblades, and ALL be allowed to kill someone. This brings the potential death total up to EIGHT, just out of the demon’s powers and Mario’s doublelynch.

Now, the Usurper and the Hierophant both die somewhere in here. The Usurper, if not vortexed, can ban someone upon death, bringing it up to nine. We’ll assume the Hierophant only has one pawn (as through revives and other means he COULD have more), and say he brings it up to 10. Requiem detonates the person he has primed, or the one he poisoned dies, either way bringing it to 11. Finally, Amaterasu makes a daykill (she would have to have given herself a daykill to be used day 3, as her night 2 power), to bring it to 12 in the day.

And here we come unto the night. Avalanchia nightkills. 13. Avalanchia gets a SECOND nightkill ability if enough people have claimed, via the Spades Slick punisher role. 14. The ELoE may have been scanned by the King at this point, so they’re a SK. 15. The Coalition does a 1-shot banning. 16. Karkat, if god-tier, makes a kill. 17. Kirby makes a nightkill. 18. The Demon can easily be assumed to have killed his three targets during the day, so he erases someone. 19. Nepeta loverbonded two people, and one dies, bringing down the other. 20. The Requiem role tries to kill someone and succeeds. 21. Now, at this point, a bunch of other shit happens. The Viero role is killed, detonating the person he has primed as well, 22 and 23. Then Kirby, as a bomb, is among the victims, and brings his killer with him. 24. Eevee is a bomb as well, adding up to a nice 25. Amaterasu makes a nightkill, 26. Natu makes a nightkill, for a 27th. Aaaand Natu’s bomb goes off, bringing down her killer as well, for a total of 16 kills at night, bringing our grand total to 28 kills in one cycle.

The end result:

Spoiler:
Everyone dies. Mario comes back to life with his 1-up. Town wins!

This is of course assuming Mario still has that second life and isn’t vortexed. It also doesn’t account for multiple pawns by the Hierophant, multiple ties on Mario’s LTB power, Amaterasu having a pawn (as DF considered trying, which would have worked on one person), the Viero role or the Req role having multiple people primed, the fact that if someone visited a person who was primed to explode, they could die too, but I digress.

This in fact makes the low death rate in earlygame rather astounding, given how high-potential the game was. There were potentially three serial killers, two mafias… so many people had the ability to take or give life that the first three days were a total surprise.

Fun Facts:

This game was littered with great moments, nice easter eggs, and throwbacks… hell, there were so many throwbacks to Game 10 in this story, so many loose ends I left hanging that were finally tied up, I don’t even think I could possibly mention them all here. I’ll try to list some notable ones below, just to show you:

First, and foremost, the way the Coalition came into power; it was due to the town’s utter ignorance of their presence, even after they were completely exposed by Weldar’s efforts. In the words of the Evil Leader of Evil, as he stood in Ascendancy Square and spoke to the people, “even as the world was plunged into chaos, the final answer was laid bare before them, for all to see. The path to salvation was clear at last. But they failed… …The Coalition rose, as you failed to heed the words of the only one who could stop them…. ...You ignored the words of your true hero, even as he gave his life to take down your foes, as he died, hope for a better world in his heart. You succumbed to the new order, allowed all you held dear to perish before the dawning of a new world. It all burned, because of what you did, what you failed to do. ” G10 Day 7, Raya and the newly revived Weldar together successfully pinpointed the entire Coalition based on Snake’s actions earlier that game, combined with their knowledge of past roles. Yet as both died night 7, the entire town seemed to miraculously forget about the fallen angels’ presence, and the Coalition went on to win the game. I had the Evil Leader scold the people for this, showing them that the Coalition’s conquest of the world was, in reality, all their own faults. This awoke in them a desire to fight, to fix the mistakes they had made, and led to the beginning of the revolution.

Next, Peach’s death. I left that shit hanging so long, it was perfect.

In Game 10, Peach was killed by the bullet intended for Matt Night 2 (in flavor if Fed ever scanned Warch, even before he was onto the Revolution stage, he would make an attempt on the Admin’s life). Chaos broke out, and nobody ever found the assassin (the whole scenario had a lot of nods to the JFK assassination)… This was one I actually left unknown on purpose, as the people would NEVER accept the Coalition if it turned out the Coalition killed Peach. Come Game 20, I shaped more of the story behind this, depicting it as something the Usurper did on purpose in order to throw the Kingdom into chaos and ease his way into power, into authority. (…and if you think about it, he might have done so, attempting to kill two birds with one stone, to eliminate Matt Mercer and also kill Peach to kick off the revolution).

Indeed, I had a concrete plan for the flavor of each of the flips since the game began; the first would occur as the people were told that the Coalition killed Peach, and the second would occur with Luigi’s death at the hands of the Avalanchians. Beyond a second flip, I was ready to improvise, as too much planning can really fence a story in, and it was hard to predict who would control the world after so many support conflicts.

For a while I thought I was going to bring Luigi back in the hospital bed ALA the end of TWBB, but I decided against it, as the symbolism of the finale was made beautiful with his death, the idea that the Kingdom was dying, that little remained worth fighting for, was given more weight by loss of the last person Mario cared about. It forced the hero to face the theme of the game, that all he had fought for was futile, and when Link presented him with the crown, as he took it and walked to the throne, he realized that even this would bring about nothing but despair, and denied the fate he had been given, at last bringing hope to the Kingdom once more.

Also of note as a G10 throwback, the Hierophant followed the premise of Matt in Game 10; he who had created the world being thrust into its midst, and thus having unnatural power over it through his knowledge. I created a bit of a parity with the Usurper and Kyle here, and would have expanded on it further had the scenario truly called for it… but it didn’t, so I didn’t. In fact, all three Quaetam roles (Quaetman, Qod, and Kyle) had an interesting parity with the Usurper, and for him to directly fight any of them would have engaged a nice throwback to the fact that Quaetam, Great Negotiator, was the last person the Usurper fought on his way to power, and the closest fight he had ever engaged in.

Had Qod fought Fedaykin, be it in Challenge Phase, at night, or elsewhere, I’d have included a line that went something like “You and I have fought before, in each of our lives. This time, it will be different. This time you have no hope. This time, the false god will fall, his delusions erased by the undeniable void. This time, you will know fate for what it truly is.

Speaking of which, there were a few absolutely amazing options for demonfight. The aforementioned Qod vs Fedaykin was one of the better ones; having the Demon fight the badass Usurper would have developed Fed’s character nicely, as well as actually slain the Demon, and delivered the sort of parity I mentioned above; with two of the game’s most powerful figures facing off in a decisive clash. Another great one would have been Hierophant + Current Pawn vs Qod; the tone would be similar to the Quaetman vs Qod one only far more desperate, as Kyle is powerful, but has nothing on the superhero, and their personalities are far different. In addition, a team battle, involving the pawn, would have been very fun to write. The pawn sacrificing himself to allow the Hierophant to attempt to kill the Demon (or depending on character, vice versa even…) Technically, had the Hierophant been championed with Fedaykin as his pawn, I would have allowed him to kill the Demon that way as well, by the way. Another interesting one, though not one I would have been too keen on writing, would be Kirby vs Demon. That might have been the most headachy matchup possible…

Now, the number of coincidences and hilarious happenstances that had a tangible effect on gameplay were monstrous. First off, the way Fedaykin died, while ever so unfortunate, was just beautiful. Sahrimnir, intending to charge suicidally into his own death and potentially bring someone down with him to stir up chaos, happened to actually pick a hostile in the process: Fedaykin didn’t scumslip this game, nor was he caught by scan. Rather, the first Avalanchian to fall was by total, complete accident. Next on the list, at one point the then-mafia found the Demon role PM via Quaetman’s hacker powers, as he scanned the interwebz to search for clues. That same day they attempted to blow up Warchamp, but failed. Immediately they all started thinking he was the Demon, and this nearly caused him a very premature death, but the hostile faction opted to kill Raya instead. Either way it biased them against him. Next nice coincidence probably came Day 8… as I was typing up the post about the Vortex, Surge claimed to be Quaetman and posted the Demon role PM just before I was able to post the Vortex. Instantly his claim seemed verified, though I was surprised that none of his detractors attempted to pin Surge as a potential Demon given the way he claimed. It was a beautiful claim that almost worked perfectly solely because of its timing, just before the use of one of the claimed powers. Next, well, the simple fact that the Superhero was sent to fight the Demon in a Quaetam vs Quaetam match… that was also hilarious in its own regard, without a doubt, and increasingly epic. The following was probably best of them all: This game, at one point, Avalanche, the player, was King of the New Kingdom of Avalanchia, and Snake, the player, led the Evil League of Evil. I needn’t describe how amazing that was.

In terms of throwbacks, by the way, it may interest you all to know that Ganondorf was once again not a role; he was another red herring, this time for the Demon, until he appeared and gave Luigi the smashball that proved to be the finishing blow. Still the Shadow Don walks the Kingdom’s silent, ruined boulevards. Still Ganon lives. And, simultaneously, Zero was the one survivor of Game 10 who did not make it into the sequel…

======

Finally, to close this post out, I want to express my gratitude at everyone who played, and played hard, in game 20. The turnout was unbelievable, the number of people who came out of the woodwork, who hadn’t been a part of the forum before, or for a while, and decided to get into this one, and get in deep, was amazing. I really have no words for how relieved I was; honestly, everything seemed to at last kind of click. I had a great setup in mind and was worried I’d have to cut various aspects of it to make things work.

Thank you all for playing, once more I was honored to write this effective novel for you, and to have been your host. I hope you all enjoyed it, and found it worth your while.


Last edited by Quaetam on Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Extra notes and cut roles

Post  Quaetam on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:59 pm

BYYYYYYYYYYYY the way...

QUANTITY OF WRITING I DID FOR GAME 20:

Pages (in the default 11 pt font Calibri I wrote this in): 185 before endgame, 258 after endgame
Pages (if converted to 12 pt font, Times New Roman): 206 before endgame, 286 after endgame

Lines: 11,385
Words: 126,785
Characters: 608,312 (without spaces)

Number of times characters were mentioned (only by name/common title, I'm not bothered to count pronouns, also not counting references to the name of the player who played as them, though they might get mixed in if there's a role title conflict):

Mario: 428
Demon: 161 (Qod never mentioned by name)
Quaetman: 118
Fedaykin: 80 (+ 163 for Usurper)
Avalanche: 61 (+ 15 for Forsaken King, +a lot for just King, but that could be anyone from Av to Spont to the Kingdom)
Spont: 1 (+ 66 if Mad King included)
SnakeInABox: 10 (+ 6 for Evil Leader)
Snake: 75 (+ 87 for Preacher)
Kyle: 3 (+ 53 for Quaetam, + 26 for Hierophant)
Vaporeon: 12
Omicron (with or without Austin): 7 (+20 for Arbiter)
Jeremy: 45 (+3 for Arisen Moderator)
Camilla: 40 (note that this will find both DRTJR's character Camilla and the player in bold)
Seedot: 3 (+18 with Sahrimnir)
Amaterasu: 2
Layton: 9
Nepeta: 1
Spades Slick: 1
Viero: 2
Joey, Ratatta: 2
Karkat: 18
Kirby: 14 (+ 20 for Cannibal, +4 for Butcher)
Requiem: 1 (the post where he killed Sonix didn't mention him by name)
Growlithe: 17 (+18 with Arcanine)
Natu: 1
Roy: 0
Nana: 4 (+ 4 with Popo)

(Luigi: 202
Link: 127
Ganon: 15
Negotiator: 8
Mewtwo: 7
Mercer: 3)

Excluded roles:

Spoiler:

Role: Punisher (Game 18)
Affiliation: Avalanchia
Pokemon: Spinda
(Support: Avalanchia)

You are Spinda, the Pokémon with a face difficult to read. Some think you're crazy, some think you're insane. Maybe you are. Maybe this whole Tempest thing was just a joke. Or maybe it's not. Do you care? They will all be punished. Every last one of them.

You are a roleclaim punisher. Everytime someone claims their role in thread or PM to you or a teammate, you will earn a point towards unlocking a power. The powers are on the following tier system:
(3 claims) – Role Scanner Extra persuasion
(5 claims) - Cop Scanner
(7 claims) - Doc Protection
(9 claims) – Scan Jailer (will roleblock and scan someone)
(10 claims) - Extra nightkill
Also, anytime you are chosen to make a mafia nightkill, the method of death will be silly.

There will be a rule in the game that there is no asking for mass roleclaiming, and while I want you to follow that, I don't want to let it discourage you to try and find a means at learning other players' roles. Just don't outright ask for someone to role claim, and same for your mafia teammates. Also, don't try faking claims from other people.

I needed to cut roles, so I decided to consolidate this with Spades.

Role:Vested bodyguard (Game 12)
Character: Steel Leader Byron
Pokemon: Bronzor
Side: Town
(Support: Coalition)

You're one of the only veteran Gym Leaders left. Seeing all these young'uns becoming leaders in the wake of so many legends dieing makes you sick. You want to make sure you stay alive as long as you can, but because you're a Gym Leader, it's your job to help others. Once per nightphase, you may select one player and have Bronzor take the hit for them. The good thing for you is, you've trained your Bronzor to make it tough. You can take TWO extra hits before dying. (Bronzor will die after two hits) If the person you’re protecting is targeted, you will lose a hit, or die if your Bronzor has been killed. If you don’t protect anyone, you will autoprotect yourself. An unblockable attack will instantly kill your Bronzor.

Would have been nice to have this, but frankly there were enough protections/killstops, and quite a powerful town; in the end this one got the axe.

If you notice, I balanced it Razz. Now it was less like a doctor that can protect everyone forever and stop unblockables to boot, and more of a limited doctor that can stop all unblockables but in doing so lose his ability to protect and still survive. Also, he couldn't take a lynch.


Character: Bread (Game 17)
Alignment: Delicious
(Support: Delicious)

You are bread, a tasty and filling snack. Literally, bread. Everyone sees you as a joke but one day, one day, you will show them all just who the true evil in this world is…

You are a mighty one man mafia. Just like the regular mafia you may make a kill during the night phase. Also, you smell lovely and taste good with melted butter. You win being the last player standing.

This would have been a hilarious role, but given all the other killing parties and such I had to cut it, sadly. The Support: Delicious was just a fun twist on Support: None, meant to throw people off if Bread ever died. Also of note, it was permanently Delicious support, because that's some damn good bread!

Role: Survivor (Game 19)
Character: Ditto
Alignment: None
Power: Shapeshift survivor
( Support: None)

You're Ditto, a shapeshifter, and have no interest in the war. All you want is to survive. To do so, you can use your Transform ability to turn into a random role, of a random alignment. Ultimately, your only goal will be to survive, and you won't get any private forum access or similar, but you'll scan as whatever you transform into. You can only transform every other night, and must transform at least every THIRD night.

"Ditto, you are useless! I dont want to be your trainer any more!"

Ditto was going to be in this for a while, as a support wildcard, who would take on the support of whatever he disguised as rather than being Preachable. I cut him early on though, as the other roles were more important.

Role: Doctor (Game 19)
Alignment: Town
(Support: Coalition)

You’re a doctor, a regular old medic. Target one person each night, and they will be protected from harm. Your job is an important one, don’t let the town down!

Surge submitted, in addition to his vanilla townie, a vanilla cop and vanilla doctor, but I passed over those in favor of Layton and Roy, who fulfilled those roles and could still fit my story. He considered submitting the Granny-Survivor role he created for his game but I openly told him that while it was an amazing role, I couldn't have it here, as I didn't want everyone suddenly dying early on in this kind of power-heavy environment Razz


Last edited by Quaetam on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:13 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  Doctor Shulk on Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:07 am

Oh man, interesting facts and figures. Holy shit, good job Q. You've really outdone yourself this time, and we're all very impressed with the job you've done.

You are an excellent host, after all.

T'was a pretty good game, everyone! I enjoyed it. Thank you for hosting a brilliant game, and then being able to analyse your own game in such great detail. You are a true god of writing.

Until next game, then!


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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  SpoonMan Abrams X on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:10 pm

Only thing I still find off was the fact so many people were willing to "trust" Surge after his claim as Quateman... considering he is an AVALANCHIAN Super-Hero. Also, while Fed himself played a great game, had anyone (myself included) went back and actually properly analyzed not his post, but other people's reactions to them, then we probably could've taken down more Avalnachians, cause at that point the team pretty much knew he was the traitor, and it actually showed quite a bit in some people's posts. Of course hind-sight is always 20/20 they say.

Really awesome stuff, Q. I enjoyed the gameplay & story for this round immensely!

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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  Fedaykin on Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:35 pm

Despite dying early, I enjoyed the short time I had very much and look forward to catching up on the rest of the story Razz Thanks for a great game, I am sure, that I'll have something to add, but tired now Razz

Oh before I forget, Coalition rules Razz

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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  SurgePox on Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:26 pm

Legendary SpoonMan wrote:Only thing I still find off was the fact so many people were willing to "trust" Surge after his claim as Quateman...
It's not that people were willing to trust me it's more that everyone was so zeroed in on their win conditions at that point that no one cared about town or anyone else. td's Usurper claim got the same level of scrutiny (none) as mine did save from relmitos, but he was actively trying to discredit me.

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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  Quaetam on Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:51 pm

Quick correction to make: Sonix actually DID scan Fedaykin, as I think I mentioned in his role PM post. If anything it makes the coincidence surrounding Fed's death funnier, as Sah fakescanned him, leading to the cop realscanning him, when he had done just about nothing suspicious Razz.

ALSO I forgot to mention that I decided not to give hosts their own roles this game, to throw people off a bit Razz Host rules were identical to Game 10 beyond that.

@Raya - I understand your complaint, the thing is, why should not having a bomb power make you keep your head low? As I stated in the opening post, the emphasis this game was mostly on in-thread discussion; behind the scenes there actually weren't that many nights with crazy power interactions besides the time everyone jumped on Camilla. You had a role that played like a normal townie, but had a very good chance of either surviving a kill or bringing down an attacker, or both. Laying low diminished that even further, and beyond that, as a vanilla, laying low is not the way to take it, since your only weapon is your voice. Think about it, if you're a semibomb with no other power, there's no reason to preserve yourself Razz Winning the game for you didn't come down to you being killed, rather I was thinking along the lines of you had the chance to play hard, focus on in-thread discussion, and there was a chance that anyone who wanted to take you down would have it come back to bite you in the ass. That was my thought in the chance aspect to your role, not that 'your role only had a chance to work' but rather 'you had a chance to surprise anyone who went after you, and to tank kills'.

That was my interpretation of it anyways, and why I chose to make the power the way I did. Sorry it left you displeased, I feel I've managed to annoy you one way or another in every one of my games :/

That said, thanks for the kind words, Raya, Spoon, Camilla, Surge, and all else, I really appreciate it.


Last edited by Quaetam on Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  Quaetam on Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:57 pm

@Surge - I actually disagree 100%. Day 8 didn't really happen because people were zeroed in on their win conditions; rather, you made an exceptional fakeclaim, using 90% truth to back up your analysis, and the events in-game reinforced your claim, as the vortex literally came up RIGHT AFTER you claimed it existed. The whole not noticing he's an Avalanchian hero thing? That sort of thing happens frequently in mafia games; see 10, where the town forgot about Weldar condemning the Coalition. Also, I had made Youngster Joey an Avalanchian, many people thought it logical that I'd do the opposite for Quaetman. Furthermore, td, as host of Game 11, kept pushing that Quaetman was townie because he knew Qman was a townie in his game, he hadn't made the connection to Weldar's death, and the Hacker role, since its debut in Game 6, has always been townie until now.

For td's claim, the logic behind it was simple. He claimed Usurper, nobody counterclaimed. This game was not going to simply NOT have a Usurper role, especially when it was already confirmed the Coalition was in, and playable. And nobody CCed, so he was logically either the Usurper itself or a Coalitionist using the Usurper as a coverclaim. Coalition was town at the time, so there was no reason to suspect/doubt him based on this; he was obviously a benevolent role. That said, Snake managed to convince everyone that Mario was actually more useful, but that's another story. All in all, people were fighting hard day 8, on all ends. The people were willing to trust Surge after the Quaetman claim not out of being blinded to win conditions, but because they saw the Vortex happen right afterward, and furthermore past games showed that there was indeed a Quaetman hacker.



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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

Post  Weldar on Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:24 pm

Yeah that was really more of case of people choosing to trust mechanics over flavour. Your claim was pretty solid, it was past role that was townie and fairly unique one so it was likely to be here. Sure Quaetman is Avalanchian but, there were a handful of forum themed games and the vast majority of forumers would be Avalanchain algined and it was rather unlikely all of these roles would be mafia, so it stood to reason there may be some townies who were technically Avalanchain (and indeed there was, Ansem was Requiem the Minister of chance and yet a townie)

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[quote="Quaetman"]
There was a flash of lightning, and the figure’s visage was illuminated for a moment, a single, terrifying moment, a revelation that seemed to stop the world dead.

“Checkmate,” said Weldar, and fired his bullet into JGH27’s heart.
[/quote][quote="King Avalanche"] I doubt any of our craniums will come out of this game a virgin cause Weldar is gonna fuck them all.[/quote]

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Re: TWBB Mafia Game 20: Those who Challenge Fate-ENDGAME-A Kingdom Worth Living For (Thread 2)

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