Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  Doctor Shulk on Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:08 pm

You can claim a role, just not flavour/the role name. Like Weldar said, he could claim cop, but he couldn't say "I'm Marth, the cop".

12 hours remain. Where the frick is Johnny, we forgot to put him on the vote tally?

UPDATED VOTE TALLY:

Requiem [4]: Fed, TD, Surge, Sonix
Raya [3]: Outlaw, Req, Avalanche
Snake [1]: DRTJR
DRTJR [1]: Snake
Outlaw [1]: Raya
Avalanche [2]: Smash, Weldar
TD260 [1]: Minby
Viero [3]: Perry, Relmitos, Spoon
Sonix [1]: Viero
TheTJ [1]: Avos

Yet To Vote: Eisen, Quaetam, TJ, Johnny

I will be editing this post with the vote tally.

Quaetam, Avos, Johnny, where are you guys at? Sad


Last edited by Doctor Shemp on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:34 pm; edited 7 times in total

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  Requiem on Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:24 pm

Very well, very well, take all the fun out of it. I'm a doublevoter. Wooo. Also, I can end the day phase once in the game should I choose to. I had half a notion to use it just before the day was over for fun (And because I was on the chopping block obviously), but I decided against it, primarily because, well, I won't be awake at that time to do it. But beyond that, it gets old defending myself in the same old ways. I try and try and try again and again, and it does no good. I've given the same reasons for my behavior I always have, and despite everything, nobody listens to me. It gets old. Sometimes I wonder if this is how DRTJR feels with Snake's constant bombardment. I can't explain my thought patterns to you. I've tried, and tried, and tried, repeatedly, and yet it still never comes through, so this time I decided "Why waste my time trying to convince them? They want to hang me, I'll have a little fun before I hang."

So there you go. You know who I am, you know what I am. If you still want to hang me, by all means, be my guest. I'm tired of fighting and arguing and being ignored (Or misinterpreted). So hang me, don't hang me, it's all the same.

Also, I was amused when it was said that I was writing more than usual. I didn't realise I had been. It certainly wasn't intentional by any means. Just how I've gotten to start writing I suppose.

Anyway, my complaints and reasons and explanations have been made known. Do as you will, and remember, Have Fun.

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  TheTJ on Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:33 pm

Well, the problem is most of your stuff relates to other games. Sure, there's not exactly a wealth of information on Day 1, but whenever you point out the statistics of your role you're only suggesting you might not be mafia. When you point out either that you're acting in form OR you're acting differently from previous games you show that you're ware of you playstyle and are capable of consciously playing different.

I know it can suck to get grilled on stuff that's pretty innocuous, but some of those upper echelon players have to sift through like, 3 levels of meta playing and triple bluffing. It gets to the point where anything you say can count against you if you're not careful.

For what's it's worth I think you were more spont-moding than panicking as a mafian so Unvote: Req.

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  Sonix! on Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:40 pm

You guys seem to make things more complicated than they need be. .-.

Vote:Req

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  Doctor Shulk on Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:41 pm

Aiming to have the top post on each page updated with a vote tally. Top post edited.

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  Weldar on Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:51 pm

Honestly Req I think a lot of the votes against you really came from the way you reacted. You jumped the gun way too hard on deciding you were doomed (Raya was still in the lead for a lot of this time) and your defense was rather flimsy and just plain odd. Like I said I personally found you near but not quite at the scuminess point of bandwagon jumping, hence going for Av. I still much prefer the Av or Viero votes than the actually currently leading Requiem/Raya votes. I'm hardly convinced of Req's innocence but while he was super unusual nothing struck me as super scummy, plus we could get some info on him based on the flips given thew way these people reacted to him.

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  Relmitos on Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:01 pm

The way I see things currently between the people with a number of votes on them, is as thus.

First is Raya, I think the votes on her are silly. It's amazing she had as many votes as she did in the first place, considering it was nothing but a large quantity of grudge votes.

Second is Req. I don't really know what to think of him. All of that rambling about how chance works and trying to hint about what his role is. It's not really accomplishing all that much and I can't really gather much of anything out of his posts. Double voting is neat though.

We've got Av, it's basically what Weldar says.

Then we've got where my vote is going, Viero. Going "Oh hey, a band wagon finally showed up. Let me get on it.", especially since before he joined said bandwagon, the tally was tied so there was no clear band wagon. That in particular is what strikes me as off. So I'll be dropping my Vote: Viero here.

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  Vivienne Vex on Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:18 pm

Relm, same thing I said to Perry. I was not saying "Oh look, lets jump onto a bandwagon." I was saying that I am voting on him because to me, Req seemed to be the first to bandwagon.

Though after reading everything Req posted, I don't really want to vote for him anymore. Actually, I kinda feel bad about it now.

UNVOTE: Req

Also, I just checked the voting records and they are wrong for about the 5th-6th time in one day phase. What is going on with them?


Sonix on the other hand did not even give a reason for his vote, which I know he does not very often. But I don't want to vote randomly and there is no one else to really go after. So because of that.

VOTE: Sonix


Last edited by Viero on Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammar issue)

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  Vivienne Vex on Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:27 pm

Requiem [4]: Fed, TD, Surge, Sonix
Raya [3]: Outlaw, Req, Avalanche
Snake [1]: DRTJR
DRTJR [1]: Snake
Outlaw [1]: Raya
Avalanche [2]: Smash, Weldar
TD260 [1]: Minby
Viero [3]: Perry, Relmitos, Spoon
Sonix [1] Viero

Spoon voted for me, not Eisen

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  JohnnyFarrar on Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:33 pm

So hey, didn't realize the game had started since Eisen never confirmed...

Reading now.

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  Doctor Shulk on Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:37 pm

JohnnyFarrar wrote:So hey, didn't realize the game had started since Eisen never confirmed...

Reading now.

Oop, sorry about that!. I can extend the dayphase if people need more time? I mean, you and Q should be right, you've got a good few hours to get your 2 cents in and it's only day 1 anyway.

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  JohnnyFarrar on Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:55 pm

Doctor Shemp wrote:
JohnnyFarrar wrote:So hey, didn't realize the game had started since Eisen never confirmed...

Reading now.

Oop, sorry about that!. I can extend the dayphase if people need more time? I mean, you and Q should be right, you've got a good few hours to get your 2 cents in and it's only day 1 anyway.

I'll talk with Q when he gets here, but I think I'm unhappy enough with this phase so far to request an extension...

ANYWAYS - Thoughts on a cursory readthrough

Ok, so first page is useless. Dislike.

Page 2, there's a wagon forming on Req for bandwagoning. In my experience, scum don't bandwagon at all day one for exactly this reason, so I'm sure as hell not voting with that wagon. (The "I wouldn't get scum twice in a row" argument is a bit terrible though)

Warchamp7 wrote:Vote: Warchamp7
Wut

Now through page 6 req is controlling talk with conjecture about his own role. Eww. If it was truly that important to the town and if you cared that much about the town, you wouldn't be talking about it at all. So either you don't care or it's not important, but only the former is a lynchworthy offense day one...

AND THAT'S BASICALLY IT. I'm a little dissatisfied with this phase so far, but maybe I can do some wagon analysis in the little time I have left and figure out why.

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  nn8n on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:10 pm

Work, lots of reading, no worries, I'm here.

The only person that stood out to me is TheTJ, he seems jumpy at Req and going a bit overboard like he's trying to ensure that he's heard. Req is just trying to play things calmly.

Vote: TheTJ

wasn't that my random vote from Game 22 1.0? Weird

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  SnakeInABox on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:12 pm

Requiem wrote:Sometimes I wonder if this is how DRTJR feels with Snake's constant bombardment.

Ok dude seriously, fuck off with that. That is the worst excuse for a pity party you could have dredged up. We talk all the time about how I DON'T constantly harass DRTJR despite my obvious wanting to. I tried to kill him in day one, during one game, and I tried to do it so as he wouldn't know the group was in on it. Any other time I've pinpointed him in a mafia game, he was on my team and it was a strategy, or he was being absolute shit and lynching him was the obvious move to begin with. So don't sit here and pretend that oh woe is you, you feel the woes of DRTJR because oh noooo, people are jumping on you for being stupid about your defense, they must be bullies like mean old snake

And for the record, Even though I have made it painfully obvious I don't like DRTJR in the least bit over the past 3 years, the last Mafia game was the ONLY time he's EVER stood up and said anything about it. So congratulations, DRTJR definitely has more balls than you do.


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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  JohnnyFarrar on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:13 pm

So yeah, I'd love an extension. Just a day (or less if you feel that is too much). Since this request is mostly for me, I'm actually asking everyone, not just Camilla. Would everyone be ok with extending?

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  nn8n on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:32 pm

I don't know if I want an extension. The game has already been long start-up...twice. I think we need to just keep it moving. Plus six pages is quite a bit of activity for a first day after all.

Vote: No Extension

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  Doctor Shulk on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:35 pm

Bearing in mind, it is only Day 1. I'll wait until a few more people have their say until I make a decision.

Edit: Damn you Avos, I wanted top post so I could vote tally! Razz

Requiem [5]: Fed, TD, Surge, Sonix, Viero
Raya [3]: Outlaw, Req, Avalanche
Snake [1]: DRTJR
DRTJR [1]: Snake
Outlaw [1]: Raya
Avalanche [2]: Smash, Weldar
TD260 [1]: Minby
Viero [5]: Perry, Relmitos, Spoon, Quaetam, Johnny
TheTJ: [1]: Avos

Yet To Vote: Eisen, TJ

Here's the current tally as it stands. There are either 7.5 or 31.5 hours left in this phase.


Last edited by Doctor Shemp on Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:08 am; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  Quaetam on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:38 pm

Camilla wrote:Quaetam, Avos, Johnny, where are you guys at?

Sorry for my absence so far, Camilla, I've been busy with friends and such.

Requiem's logic is faulty; he's committing the Gambler's Fallacy all over this bitch. Given that all past events have already occured, they cannot be accounted for when computing the probability of this game's chances for him to role mafia. It's gonna be 33% or whatever ratio Camilla has for Scum/Town. That, however, is not a lynchable offense, and I'm less inclined to look at Req himself than some of the players bandwagoning him.

To follow from that, Avalanche's vote stands out, yes, and I agree with the reasons his lynch has been proposed; he seems to be bandwagoning, with little to no reason, and thus trying to increase the pressure on one possible target (and a player of repute, one whom a mafian would love to see lynched early). It's suspicious, for certain, but I find there's a better target, however:

See, as everyone here should know by now, mafians want to appear as much as townies as possible.

Given the nature of Day 1, based on my sexperience, you get the scum who bandwagon on established lynch targets, and the mafians who will be afraid of bandwagoning and place their 'random' votes. In the case of the latter, some will simply stay in the shadows, while others often attempt to still remain thoughtful and present logical reasoning but don't want to throw themselves into a firefight, and will be too afraid to push.

In the case of the former, well... mafians can tend to vote on a bandwagon with light reasoning, trying to not say anything that'll draw suspicion, but still applying pressure to someone they want out of the game early, or to whoever they can get, really. This is why Avalanche's vote on Raya is suspicious, as I said above. However, what bothers me more is the player who appears concerned about being suspicious, and thus present very shifty attempts at reasoning their way onto a player. When pressed, they back off, pretending to have found someone else suspicious, or even just blatantly giving in to the pressure.

This is what bothers me about Viero. His first vote on Requiem was not merely as a bandwagon vote, but one that seems like it's trying to explain itself by parroting another player (in this case, our friendly neighborhood Platypus). This alone drew my suspicion more than the other bandwagoners', but what gets me more is his reaction when pressured: Once he seems to get a few votes on him for bandwagoning, Viero backs off and says he feels bad about his first vote. That sort of backtracking is often a scumtell.

So for now, Vote: Viero.

I haven't given this a full analysis, so more analysis will come later, and I may change my vote, but right now he's the best bet.


Last edited by Quaetam on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  Quaetam on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:39 pm

And I'd be fine with an extension, but if most people want to move on, I'm also okay with that. I'll defer to the majority on this one.

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  JohnnyFarrar on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:41 pm

Fedaykin wrote:Well, I still have an unresolved grudge.

vote: Requiem

First vote on Req, RVS. Meh.

Perrytheplatypus wrote:This is being far too uneventful. At this rate the dayphase will go to waste.

Vote: Requiem, for apparently being the first real bandwagon jumper and sending this dayphase into an unproductive spiral if we don't play some people out against eachother.
We need at least 2 people being at odds to get results.

Second vote. I disagree with the premise of the vote, but agree with everything else. This is mafia, conflict is important. The intelligence of the post minus the vote just makes the vote look odd. Keeping an eye on Perry.

td260 wrote:Actually, I'm with perry on this. The odds of flipping a coin 100 times and it being heads for every one is astronomical. But after 99 flips being heads, the chance of it being heads again is still 50%- and the odds of it being tails are 50%. Likewise, your chance of being mafia this game is just as likely as it was last game. As such...

unvote: minby

vote: req

Third vote: The argument that encompasses most of this post has nothing to do with Req's actual alignment. It basically says "You have the same odds as everyone else of being scum. So I'm voting you." Random votes don't belong on the biggest bandwagon of the game. Don't like it.

Viero wrote:I am going to change my vote to Req, Raya seems to be just as good as a random vote while Req seems like the first actual bandwagon vote. And while that does not really mean he is scum. It is certainly better than a random vote.

UNVOTE: Kyle

VOTE: Req

Fourth vote. "It's not random, but it's not really anything else either." Don't like this one either.

TheTJ wrote:Ehhh... I disagree with Req's reasoning, mostly because it doesn't apply to this game.

See, the chances you were mafia in the last game sits at 100% because you were. Now, with a new game we can disregard it. You can't take a long view in these cases. The odds of you being mafia this game are more or less the same as they were the first time around. I'm pretty sure someone here was townie... 8 times in a row? Something like that. I remember it being an ongoing things, or something like it. Anyway, every game they played they had the same chance as the last time (Based on number of players)

When we talk about the odds of who's townie and who's not it is very important to note *previous games don't matter*. We're not trying to find out if you rolled mafian twice in a row, we only care if you rolled it THIS time. Essentially the best you can say is that you're not mafian because it's slightly more likely you're a townie.

Now, from what you're saying about "Two will die" I'm thinking either lover bond or a bomb. Either way, the... "I know what you guys don't but soon you'll all learn!" approach is NOT doing you any favours in the townie soft claim (could be 3rd party)

So for now I'm going to Vote: Req

5th vote, but after Perry unvoted. You acknowledge the softclaims and acknowledge that the probability argument doesn't matter and still vote because you think it's a third party soft claim. That seems a little out of left field for my tastes, but your's is the most thought out vote on the wagon so far. Not scummy, just weird.

SurgePox wrote:Vote: req

For someone who uses chance and randomness a lot in games you sure are apparently bad at understanding it. No offense meant by that statement, but you are ignoring a lot of established statistical understanding.

There's more to it than just that. Much more to it. The entire universe has it's own balance outside of what we do. There is energy that we cannot see, do you not know?
This is not a valid appeal as far as statistical analysis of mafia is concerned. Mafia is very much a numbers game and numerical approaches are not rendered invalid just because we do not understand the universe in it's entirety. It seems more like you're getting desperate than that you actually believe what you are saying. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here. I think this is a decent lead.

Sixth vote. Back to the statistics probability nonsense, but at the end you threw in that he seems desperate so there's a reason I guess. I put the last two sentences in red because I don't understand what you're talking about there.

Sonix! wrote:You guys seem to make things more complicated than they need be. .-.

Vote:Req

Seventh vote. NO REASON AT ALL ON A LATE VOTE. BAD SONIX. BAD.

So yeah, I count three votes with valid reasons listed, only one of which I wouldn't call bad. So I don't like this wagon at all.

Vote: Sonix because his vote was easily the worst.


Ninja'd a couple times: Meh.

Ninja'd again by Q: Yeah Viero is a good vote, too.

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  Quaetam on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:49 pm

I agree, Johnny, with your assessment of td260; actually intended to put him in that wall earlier, but I'm more focused on Viero right now. td falls into that jump-on-the-bandwagon-for-little-reason sense of scumminess, really.

As for Sonix, while that sort of vote is always suspicious, Sonix has cemented this as his norm in the past few games. I've seen him do it as any alignment; he did this as a townie in game 20, throughout the entire game, as you probably remember. So I'm reserving judgement on him.

And, on the subject of Perry, I'm currently more inclined to think he was attempting to apply pressure and see what happens; stirring up discussion to give the town more room to scumhunt, etc, especially when his voteshift is taken into account.

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  JohnnyFarrar on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:57 pm

Regarding td: I'd be fine with a wagon on him if it cropped up as well.

Regarding Sonix: If you say so...

vote:Viero. This vote will probably actually have more of an effect anyway.

Regarding Perry: He seems good enough that I'm reserving judgement, even though his unvote was good.

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  Minby_Aran on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:00 pm

So, pretty much anything I could add right now has been said, which is probably for the best, because I shouldn't be thinking too hard right now.

While Req seems overly defensive, calling him out on that is like calling me out for being quiet in the early days, it's just playstyle, mostly. I don't particularly see much from any of the bandwagoners, so since it looks like the day will be extended, I'll hold off on shifting my vote until there's a bit more pestering done to some people.

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  Vivienne Vex on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:11 pm

The voting on him because I saw it as bandwagoning, guess what? Still better than a random vote. I gave a perfectly logical reason as to why I put my vote on Req when there were no other people to vote for. And then all that happened, then I personally felt bad about it, so I took my vote off of him and gave it to someone who I also just found deserves it more in my eyes. Me back tracking has nothing to do with mafia in general, it is a personality trait that in no way is connected to this game. Making the usual sight of this scum slip count for nothing.

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

Post  Doctor Shulk on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:17 pm

Okay, I'm deciding against the dayphase extension. Sorry Johnny, but you're the only person who's really keen on it. It's only day 1, and pretty much everyone's voted (Eisen's away, but coming back soon, and TJ...idk what happened, he didn't shift his vote, just dropped it Razz ). I don't think an extension is necessary at this point in time, and as such, the dayphase will be ending in seven hours.

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Re: Mafia Game 22.2 - FINALE - no homo, right

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