Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Catterick on Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:34 pm

df, snake, spont: 2
q, spoon, natasha, relm, minby, no-one: 1
everyone else: 0

yet to vote: Q, Weldar, Minby, Vsente, Sah, Fed, Td, JGH, DF

Thought for the day: be wary of wagons, but remember the mafia don't care about days with no-lynch. It's safer for them to kill from the shadows.

I'd say the new players are pretty untouchable at this point, we don't want to be cruel. Totally not saying that cause all 4 got mafia with me as godfather. Wink

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Relmitos on Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:06 pm

Raya wrote:Choosing people by RNG is mean and a nice excuse if they turn up innocent.



How is picking the first RVS vote via an RNG mean at all? It's fair, and let's face it, so far we've got a vote from a guy that only votes on one of two people day 1 every game, a vote because "This person is number 18 on the list, and it's my favorite number", a vote "Because this guy didn't vote", a vote no one, and a vote because some guy used an RNG to determine his RVS vote, and you're really going to sit there and tell me that my vote was mean/suspicious/a nice excuse because I used an RNG as opposed to any other reason? That seems a little silly to me.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Vsente on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:52 am

Ugh, I didn't even realized this game started. Lmao. I was checking the sign-ups thread for it to start thinking it would start there because I'm an idiot.

I don't know how things work around here, but as a sidenote I've been playing mafia on and off for 6 years. I'm not good at it, but I know how it works.

Vote: Raya

Using "someone RVS voted and that makes them scummy" as an argument is scummy, imo. What else is there to go off of? Do you expect Relm to have a clear-cut reason for voting someone when nothing has really even happened?

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  TheTJ on Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:32 am

Quick heads up in case it becomes relevant, a tied vote means a No-lynch.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Sahrimnir on Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:28 am

Well, I want to avoid a no-lynch because I don't want to give the mafia a free night to kill someone.

So I should probably vote for one of those three that have two votes.

Out of those three, DF hasn't posted. If she is a mafian, she could hide by not posting.

Vote: DarkFalco

Even though if she is trying to hide, it obviously isn't working so she should probably come out and say something soon.

This reasoning is probably very shaky, but it's day one. I haven't got anything better to go on.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Deanna on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:09 am

Catterick wrote:
Thought for the day: be wary of wagons, but remember the mafia don't care about days with no-lynch. It's safer for them to kill from the shadows.

This statement isn't exactly true. Mafia want people dead during the day just as much as they do during the night. Town deaths via lynch work in a way that every voter is held liable, whether their vote is on someone else or the lynchee. Overnight, all players are about as clueless as the other (mafia knowing maybe 2 or 3 other roles, that belong to their teammates), and the possibility of surprise tracker/watcher/doctor/jailkeeper/et al can catch mafia off guard, while votes are always publicized.

Plus, the longer the game goes on, the more likely it is that evidence will pile up against them, because unless town on this site features an incredible lack of investigative powers, mafia faces more PoE against their favor as the timeline progresses and night actions/roles become claimed.


Are games often this trudgingly slow around here?

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Quaetam on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:19 am

21st birthday is over and with it I am extremely hungover.  

be wary of wagons, but remember the mafia don't care about days with no-lynch. It's safer for them to kill from the shadows. - Catterick

The goal of the mafia earlygame is to weed down numbers while minimizing potential leads - and maximizing FALSE leads.  While a NL certainly benefits the mafia, I've found that scum teams prefer to take advantage of the D1 atmosphere and attempt to create reasonable false leads via mislynch - Failing that possibility, they'll lynch someone who has been irrelevant to the day's discussion or go for an NL to leave leads ambiguous and keep people guessing.  

On that note, 


Vote: Sahrimnir

Other than lynching scum, earlygame lynches are useful to create connections - you're voting for someone who has only accrued a pair of RVs (and who before our exchange has generated no discussion) on the basis of 24 hours of inactivity.

You yourself acknowledge this is shaky reasoning so why follow through?  If you don't have a real reason to believe someone's mafia, they're only worth a lynch when they'll create some tangible leads - which at the point of your post DF wouldn't.

A few other thoughts:

This is mafia. Anything anyone does is scummy. Hell, if I self voted right now, a bunch of people would probably be on me trying to get me killed. -Minby_Aran

This scummy little gem followed after Raya's post against Relmitos.  Looks kinda like an attempt to dismiss Raya's arguments on Relm without actually contributing.  

I guess you could say that when drifters like Quaetam joined up everything here started to go downhill XD -Snake

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Quaetam on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:22 am

Quote: Deanna wrote:Are games often this trudgingly slow around here?

Not usually, though Day 1 tends to drag a bit. People here don't like to pursue soft leads.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Natasha on Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:15 am

Heads up, I'll be vacationing soon, so sorry if I have a lack of activity in advance.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Spontaneous Combustion on Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:17 am

SnakeInABox wrote:Yea I expected a new person to immediately vote for me. That's cool I guess

I am glad to see that Spont decided to join the party, pretty quickly too. I'll Vote:Spont because I know a lil troublemaker when I see one and you a lil troublemaker

And now I voted so you have no reason to be voting for me, whoooooa now its ironic too

Good to see that me and Spoon are still completely interchangeable.
You sure you want to keep that vote where it is, buddy?

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Requiem on Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:23 am

Sorry about the upvote there. On my phone. Also, since when were night kills called night lynches here? Unvote: Df and Vote: Q

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Minby_Aran on Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:45 am

Q, thank you for proving my point. I make a joke, and suddenly I'm suspicious.

Honestly, people will find faulty logic to go after anyone on day one. That's what day one is. The lynch will almost certainly hurt the town, but it's the only way to start gathering information, and that's what the town needs. The mafia has information, the town does not. That's kind of the point of the game. The value in D1 lynches is seeing how people are playing, how they're reacting, and what arguments people used to get someone killed.

That being said, that's why I'm always a bit more suspicious of newbies. Most of us already know each other's playstyles very well.Q comes out and posts long, logical arguments. Snake acts brash and violent to get reactions out of people. TD meekly goes through the game not offending anyone. When people stray from that, we judge it to be suspicious. with the new people, we don't know what they're normally like, so it's harder to make a read on them. Now I'm not saying we should go ahead and lynch them all right away, but to give them a pass just because they're new and should get to experience the game is ludicrous.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  KnightOwl on Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:31 pm

If you're naturally more suspicious of newbies, what are your opinions on us?

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  SurgePox on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:00 pm

KnightOwl wrote:If you're naturally more suspicious of newbies, what are your opinions on us?
My biggest read is that you guys guys really hate the forum layout.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Catterick on Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:44 pm

Requiem wrote:Sorry about the upvote there. On my phone. Also, since when were night kills called night lynches here? Unvote: Df and Vote: Q
Am I missing something here? Why vote Q? Or having second thoughts about DF?

Minby I just think we should let the newbies live till D2. Maybe it's because I got a lot of it last game, but I find the argument that "we don't know his playstyle, he's immediately suspicious" completely crazy. In story terms it's like lynching somebody just cause they're new in town. That said, I don't think you saying this makes you suspicious exactly, Req and Raya argued the same thing last game and I was wrong about them.

By the same general token I wouldn't want to lynch Sah, he died N1 last game without posting once... yet still won as a townie, lol.

Regarding playstyles, Snake has mixed it up a lot in the past with hints as to his character, and seems to be doing something like that now? He seems kind of chirpy... I also thought we would hear from Weldar by now, I believe he likes to advocate a D1 lynch. Still, plenty of time to go.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Minby_Aran on Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:13 pm

I have no opinions of you, that's why I have to be suspicious. Everyone else seems normal so far. I don't know what "normal" is for the new people. It's not that I'm necessarily more suspicious of the new people, just that I feel like they do need to be watched more.

And Cat, I think it's insane to say that they deserve to live more than anyone else because they're new. You can't treat someone better just because they haven't played here before. They all know the game, and should be expecting no less.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Vsente on Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:16 pm

Catterick is giving me weird vibes. I think it's because I keep seeing a lot of words and more posts than quite a few people here, but content majority is waffly and I don't think they even have a vote yet?

Minby_Aran wrote:Snake acts brash and violent to get reactions out of people.
I would advise no one act this way towards me, as by nature I'm an emotional person. Although I don't mean to be an emotional player, I'd rather nothing... unpleasant happen here.

Also lmao, why not just lynch a new person if you think they're legitimately scummy? For example, if you have solid reasons to think I'm scummy, I don't mind being killed early despite being new. Being new shouldn't really affect anything, aside from the fact that we know nothing about anyone's metagame here, which can be an issue I guess. Culture shock, too. But that's about it. I don't know why this argument is happening.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  SnakeInABox on Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:22 pm

SurgePox wrote:
KnightOwl wrote:If you're naturally more suspicious of newbies, what are your opinions on us?
My biggest read is that you guys guys really hate the forum layout.

I lold so fucking hard I fell out of my chair.

Also Cat, yes I do hint at my roles in every game, but you would only know that if you read our post game banter. I make an effort to make things so subtle that you don't catch it until after the fact. I'm chipper because I haven't played Mafia in awhile, seeing as I SOMEHOW missed the last game....

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  SnakeInABox on Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:35 pm

Vsente wrote:Catterick is giving me weird vibes. I think it's because I keep seeing a lot of words and more posts than quite a few people here, but content majority is waffly and I don't think they even have a vote yet?

Minby_Aran wrote:Snake acts brash and violent to get reactions out of people.
I would advise no one act this way towards me, as by nature I'm an emotional person. Although I don't mean to be an emotional player, I'd rather nothing... unpleasant happen here.

Also lmao, why not just lynch a new person if you think they're legitimately scummy? For example, if you have solid reasons to think I'm scummy, I don't mind being killed early despite being new. Being new shouldn't really affect anything, aside from the fact that we know nothing about anyone's metagame here, which can be an issue I guess. Culture shock, too. But that's about it. I don't know why this argument is happening.

I would advise that you not go through the trouble of painting a great big sign on your forehead that reads 'SKULL FUCK ME'. No one gets a free ride from the shit train because they are "Emotional", if anything that just makes it more likely people are going to try and manipulate you. And trying to establish from the get go that no one should brashly question you just sets yourself up to be able to manipulate others easily as well, soooo congratulations on looking both weak and scummy at the same time.

Culture shock shouldn't be a problem if you actually took the time to watch TWBB. If you're here for the same reasons all the oldies are here for, you're not going to get treated any differently than any of the dumb fucks that haven't left after 4 years. Though I do wholeheartedly agree that you new players, cat aside because he's a weirdo, do not know us and subsequently do not know our play styles.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Catterick on Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:57 pm

Vsente wrote:Catterick is giving me weird vibes. I think it's because I keep seeing a lot of words and more posts than quite a few people here, but content majority is waffly and I don't think they even have a vote yet?
I think I give everyone weird vibes. But yeah, I voted for DF one page 1. It was hard to see buried in some text, and I'll make sure to separate it in future.

Now in case it wasn't clear last post, I'm finding Req's voteswitch strange and inexplicable. He's known for stubbornly sticking to his guns, and DF is his traditional D1 vote. So switching D1 of all days, with no reasoning for voting Q, really isn't usual.

So I wonder whether DF and Req are both mafia, Req had to throw out his traditional vote on her cause his other D1 vote, Vivienne, isn't playing. However once DF was leading in votes and could've bandwagoned he realised he had to switch.

I give him the benefit of the doubt cause he said he was posting from a phone so maybe couldn't write too much. Still I thought I'd mention it.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  TD260 on Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:58 pm

I'm glad that snake is immediately starting off this game by being a colossal dick to the newbies. It's just like old times. Except he's being an asshole to someone else.

As for today... Not much has happened. So...
Vote: Catterick

Shake-a the tree, see what falls.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Vsente on Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:27 pm

Thanks, Snake, but I don't really see how what I said was scummy.

I never said I didn't want anyone to brashly question me. I played somewhere where "shaking people for reactions" actually meant "personally insult the player until they overreact." If that's not what you meant, I will have no problems with you.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  Vsente on Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:34 pm

All right, I read that post again and it seems you completely misunderstood what I meant.

Man, I saw the word "violent" and got scared because every time I see that word in a mafia game, it's used to describe someone who emotionally manipulates people to get what they want. And they do this by insulting a player's intelligence and outright harassing them (as in, getting super personal) until they get the answers that they want, which is what I was asking you not to do to me.

I made a wrong assumption based on previous experiences with people who are "brash and violent to get reactions out of people."

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Question me all you like. Hound me for answers all you like. That's the point of mafia. I was never telling anyone to avoid questioning me--if I didn't want people to do that, I might as well not be playing this game. Lmao.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  KnightOwl on Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:53 pm

We're close to the end of the day, right? This will probably be my last post, sorry!

Unvote
Vote: Catterick

I think the reasons behind his vote don't make much sense. It feels as if he's trying to fabricate some kind of reason for a serious vote rather than something that would be natural.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

Post  SurgePox on Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:26 pm

Being personally insulting can get you banned, mafia isn't an exception. If you are playing, you're willing to accept that sometimes things get heated (and things do get heated) but at the end of the day, nothing is meant to be taken personally outside of the game and no amount of pressure should hurt outside of the game. Anything crossing that line is bad sportsmanship and should not be done even if it is your strategy. 

I'm sticking with no vote. It's not wrong to vote someone early because I believe in early pressure but early bandwagons are easy and it's more my style to take it slow early. We've had decently good early discussion and some early division pressure, and tells are already popping up. I would hope everyone play at least posts once.

Here are a list of players who have not posted.

7. Darkfalco
12. JGH
19. Weldar



Failing to post is not inherently scummy, but it's worth noting who bothered to post in day one.
There's two points of interest here, the first is DF. Most of us know DF is returning from a trip soon, and a few people who voted for her this phase I suspect already knew this as well. If not sorry but I think this is an easy way to bus someone who one knows is not able to currently defend themselves and I would be critical.
I don't get any reads of JGH and Weldars absences because I don't know the nature of them. There are good reasons to be absent, and there's a reasonable case for both town and scum to post little. Without the preemptive explanation I am not inclined to read their absences as being scum play.



Here are the players who only posted once, or posted very little.


5. Surgepox
8. Magician's Adviser
14. TD260
15. SpoonMan
18. Natasha
20. KnightOwl


I am including myself in that list as aside from this post, I have only posted to novote and make meta posts. Of these players, Spoon is immediately obvious because he does often day one post a randomvote and then vanish, as he even did last game. I would like him to show up and post a bit more. The other two that really stick out to me are Magician and Natasha. Magician and Natasha have only shown up to randomvote, and then Natasha noted she was going to become inactive. Although going on vacation is a thing that really happens (see DF above), I have to be a little skeptical when someone posts in advance that they were leaving for vacation to dismiss their upcoming inactivity, especially when they presumably were not on vacation now and despite that, played fairly inactively. It is day one so I can't be overcritical of that but Natashas play here seems funny to me. I am not going to vote but if I did I'd probably vote Natasha.

I don't have a read on anyone else above. Most posters seems to range from leaning town to leaning scum but no one is making any decisive play one way or the other, as is typical of day one.

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Re: Mafia Game 27: What Lurks in the Void

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