MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Quote on Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:35 am

UGHHH I had a post but I accidentally refreshed and deleted it like a fucker.

Hi I'm alive, I'll have a real post and vote when it's not 6am and I'm dying, I'll be able to get it in before phase end after class. I don't think Suicide is scum though from the skim though at the same time the "o this is rng I feel bad ))):" rubs me the wrong way because Past Experiences but Avalanche's response to the votes was weird too. already from their interactions I'm feeling either town/town or scum/town, not feeling scum/scum here. that's all I got until I actually read tomorrow I'm dead good night

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  The Magician's Adviser on Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:02 am

Quaetam wrote:

  1. If Suicide is mafia: Magician's Advisor - Well, MAD brings up a metagaming point that he always votes this way.  In G27 and G28 he used this as his RVS reason, and in G28 reminded everyone that "he always votes this way".  I don't recall if he's done it as a townie, but it's interesting that he's continuing to lean on a crutch of consistency when this has consistently been a day 1 *cover* of his.   That's metagame knowledge, and not enough to merit a vote.  It's relevant if Suicide is scum: If Suicide is really that careless, I wouldn't put it past him to support a teammate's vote without thinking.


Several things
1. What does RVS mean?
2. I have done that while townie, in fact it was the example I first cited (with Spont in the Musical Mafia).
3. I know there's not much to be done about it, but I feel like it's kinda dickish that we're killing off the guy who hasn't had the chance to play mafia in like a year

EDIT: Point 3 was more of a general note, but my point still stands
EDIT EDIT: Clarifying Point 3, I meant killing him off Day One. Wasn't trying to suggest we give him a free ride, that would be dumb and not actually playing the game

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Quaetam on Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:55 am

Even if you've used the lucky number thing as town, it's still beneficial and optimal for you to lean on consistency if you're mafia. I'd rather not dive too far into speculation about that because, like I said, it's meta.

Regarding Suicide - I'll quote myself:
It's a mistake I've seen people make later in phase, but rarely at the beginning.  I want to make sure he's not being scapegoated. - Q

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Catterick on Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:07 am

Unvote: TheTJ
Vote: JGH27

Updated totals:
SuicideAngel (3)
Avalanche, Requiem, JGH27 (2)
Quaetam, Relmitos, Magician's Advisor, Fedaykin (1)
Everyone Else (0)

Yet to vote: Quaetam, Minby, Quote, Sahrimnir, JGH27, Smashbro
Yet to post: Minby, Sahrimnir, JGH27, Smashbro

Interesting how many players are laying low. I won't be able to get on again before the Day ends, so I'll just say, I don't really feel the case against SuicideAngel is bad enough to go after him, especially when he hasn't played in so long. Same goes for Avalanche. But we do have to lynch someone, so I threw in a vote on someone inactive.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Smashy B on Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:52 am

Raya wrote:Vote:SuicideAngel

RNG votes are scummy enough, since you can target the town and claim 'not my fault lol'. Bandwagoning AND RNG votes are even worse.
When I read this, I think you can apply the same line of reasoning towards Raya reasoning (and same for the reasoning I'm about to apply). RNG votes are scummy, I agree, especially past Day 1. Bandwagoning is scummy too, but I wouldn't call a second vote on a guy that early bandwagoning. That said, voting for a guy because they voted via RNG seems, to me, as easy as voting randomly. RNG is simple excuse for early votes, and also an excuse for demonizing the same person.

But you know what it all REALLY tells me right now? Nothing. Basically, RNG is suspicious, and so is jumping on someone for RNG though to a lesser degree.

That said, should Avalanche flip mafia, then I'm suspicious of Fedaykin because he flipped a coin between Avalanche and Suicide. But no finger pointing yet.

Also, I think Catterick is suspicious because of his vote change to an inactive. Not a bad idea to try and get someone to talk, but I think that's not very effective this late in the dayphase other than increasing their vote tally. And while Catterick has been more active than JGH27 so far, half the posts are for the vote tally (thanks, btw), which shows activity without adding much of their own thought on who to lynch.

Vote: Catterick

Requiem wrote:Vote: Magician's Advisor because I'm jealous that he got a PS4
I also got one recently. :B

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  SnakeInABox on Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:51 pm

After some consideration, I think it's in everyone's best interests if the dayphases last 72 hours as opposed to 48. Hindsight is 20/20, I suppose.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  JGH27 on Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:20 pm

Quaetam wrote:You're not going to long con me THIS game, bucko - TD260

Would you rather I Byzantium Sacred Sites victory you?

I'd rather you use lube, personally.


Ok, now that I'm actually here (long story short but until last night I hadn't slept in 42 hours, yay film :/) I can post some thoughts.


First off the whole RNG voting argument is a tired one. Every game people use it, every game people complain about it. Truth is its not going anywhere.


Now for Catterick

I find it a bit peculiar that you throw a vote on an 'inactive' after said inactive already had a vote thrown on him. Not only do you do this but you then mention how you won't be online again before the end of dayphase. So if I become active your reasoning becomes void and if it was to get me active, you can't vote swap to another inactive.

On top of this out of 4 inactive player your vote defaults on to me. It seems every game you go after me and clearly this game seems like it'll be no different. Your reasoning for vote changing contains a bit of logic but your switching to me seems slightly calculated. Like Smash said, your vote switch wasn't set to just any inactive but an inactive already with a vote.

Final comment here: "I'll just say, I don't really feel the case against SuicideAngel is bad enough to go after him, especially when he hasn't played in so long." How is an inactive 'case' any stronger? In regards to the latter part, I hosted last game so I haven't played in awhile either.

I find your attempts at logic flawed and as such I

Vote: Catterick

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Relmitos on Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:11 pm

Quaetam wrote:

  • Relmitos - His first post seemed a little more carefully constructed than the other random votes that were thrown out - sometimes mafians fall into this habit when they're posting early D1 and worried about looking suspicious.  Responses to DF and Barda could be defensive but it's also too early for a player like him to panic.


Didn't really see those as being defensive when I said them. Barda didn't even vote on me, no reason to get defensive against someone who isn't attacking you.

and did I read that right? My first post had more words in it then the other random votes did so it's more suspicious?

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Catterick on Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:40 pm

JGH27 wrote:
Quaetam wrote:You're not going to long con me THIS game, bucko - TD260

Would you rather I Byzantium Sacred Sites victory you?

I'd rather you use lube, personally.


Ok, now that I'm actually here (long story short but until last night I hadn't slept in 42 hours, yay film :/) I can post some thoughts.


First off the whole RNG voting argument is a tired one. Every game people use it, every game people complain about it. Truth is its not going anywhere.


Now for Catterick

I find it a bit peculiar that you throw a vote on an 'inactive' after said inactive already had a vote thrown on him. Not only do you do this but you then mention how you won't be online again before the end of dayphase. So if I become active your reasoning becomes void and if it was to get me active, you can't vote swap to another inactive.

On top of this out of 4 inactive player your vote defaults on to me. It seems every game you go after me and clearly this game seems like it'll be no different. Your reasoning for vote changing contains a bit of logic but your switching to me seems slightly calculated. Like Smash said, your vote switch wasn't set to just any inactive but an inactive already with a vote.

Final comment here: "I'll just say, I don't really feel the case against SuicideAngel is bad enough to go after him, especially when he hasn't played in so long." How is an inactive 'case' any stronger? In regards to the latter part, I hosted last game so I haven't played in awhile either.

I find your attempts at logic flawed and as such I

Vote: Catterick

Of course I voted for someone with a vote on them, I want my vote to count and if I voted for another inactive person, they would just have 1 vote on them. In that case, I might as well 've kept my vote on TheTJ. The goal of this game is to lynch people.

Also, Minby already said he would be inactive early in the game, so I couldn't fault him for that.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  JGH27 on Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:01 pm

Ok, but you failed to answer why a vote on an inactive is any stronger of a case than the votes on Suicide Angel.

You want to lynch someone, there's a player currently in the lead and you change your vote only AFTER a vote has been placed on me and claim its due to inactivity. Could you perhaps have an ulterior motive to save SA? Afterall you want a lynch but don't want it to be SA. The reasoning for either myself or SA isn't any stronger.

I just find your logic to be grasping at this point.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  SuicideAngel on Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:10 pm

Out of curiosity how is RNG any worse than unrelated "prejudiced" votes (I'm looking at you Spoon, Req and Relm), because I honestly can't figure it out. Even an RNG voter has to own up to their choices eventually Raya, I think everyone can agree that your argument that they can shrug it off with 'not my fault lol' is either a lie or a gross lack of common sense. FoS: Raya The only reason I don't vote you is because I'd really rather not die.

In regards to Advisor's comment, I literally haven't played in, what 5 years? He's saying he'd feel bad if the person who hasn't played in forever suddenly can't play. I don't think he was actually trying to make a case one way or the other.

Finally Vote: JGH27
Why? Because I see him one post above me wondering why I'm not in the noose already. I'm petty that way.

EDIT: Adding Vote totals so far
JGH, SuicideAngel (3)
Catterick, Requiem (2)
Advisor, Avalanche, Fedaykin, Quaetam, Relmitos (1)


Last edited by SuicideAngel on Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added in vote totals)

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  JGH27 on Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:20 pm

Honestly did not realize its been that long. I figured you just missed the last game or two.

As for wondering why you aren't in the noose, not what I meant. I was calling out Catterick on flawed logic much like your calling out the RNG voters just now.

You know SA you could've voted Catterick instead of me and still have equal chance at saving yourself lol

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  SuicideAngel on Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:40 pm

Yeah, last game I played was Mafia 10 xD

I'm not calling out the RNG voters (because I was one), quite the opposite in fact; I'm saying Raya is wrong to condemn the act based on the reasoning she offered - Reasoning I think is either highly naive or disgustingly scummy. And I was leaning towards Cat because I could make a King of the Hill reference, but he's not actively condoning my hanging Razz Intended or not, your post is still taking a very anti-Me stance.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  The Magician's Adviser on Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:19 pm

SuicideAngel in a nutshel:

I'm sorry I don't have anything more substantial to add to the conversation. I've still yet to get good at this. I was going to make a remark about how Q noted that SA's move was too obvious to be an intentional scum move, and (EDIT)then loop around and connect to the fact that (EDIT) Raya was likely more than experienced enough to consider this, but then I realized that argument ends in circular logic that basically ends up in more discussion which is exactly what town needs, so good job Raya.
\

EDIT: Clarifying a statement, it initially looked like misattribution

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Requiem on Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:24 pm

I mean, personally, I don't have a problem with RNG day one. Especially with the first vote. A vote has to come from somewhere, and if there's absolutely nothing there, it's no different to roll a die than it is to pick someone's name because they're fun to vote for.

As for DF, sorry, but my knowledge of MAD's PS4 and copy of Fallout 4 kinda won out over my habit of voting you.

As for literally everyone who as a PS4, you all suck. Just so much jealousy.

As for Q, I don't ever remember voting an ally day one as mafia. Granted, I can't remember ever being a mafian other than the game where everybody was mafia, but still. I don't consider it a valid reason, and seems more like a stretch than anything, which is kind of concerning when it comes to you.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Minby_Aran on Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:27 pm

Sorry I'm late.

I'm going to try not to be a total nothing early in the game, even with life going on all around me, and my normal history of laying low early in games. That said, actual game stuff.

I'm, as usual, not completely sold on a no lynch being objectively worse on day 1 than a random lynch. The mafia has an advantage of knowing who they can get out who will be town, and they just need to have one of them just on a tie to push it over. We do gain some information from the day even without a kill, so it's not like we're completely at square 1 when we get to day 2.

That being said, I'm going to Vote: No one for now, and probably not going to change it today, because I can't justify sending anyone to hang just yet. Not setting that in stone, if someone can convince me that I'm wrong and should vote, I'm open to it.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Catterick on Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:48 am

Updated totals:
SuicideAngel, JGH27 (3)
Avalanche, Requiem, Catterick (2)
Quaetam, Relmitos, Magician's Advisor, Fedaykin (1)

No One (1)
Everyone Else (0)

Yet to vote: Quaetam, Quote, Sahrimnir
Yet to post: Sahrimnir


Once again I won't be able to post again before the Day ends due to work schedule, but yeah. I think I'm going to miss a Q post/vote which will hopefully break the tie. I have mild FoSs for Sah and Quote for not participating, and for Smashbro for possibly starting a bandwagon on me, but the first could be due to busyness and the second relies on me knowing I'm town.

Regardless of that, whoever dies of the top 5 in votes (minus Req possibly) will shed light on to other members allegiances, which is good for a first day.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Raya on Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:00 pm

SuicideAngel wrote:Out of curiosity how is RNG any worse than unrelated "prejudiced" votes (I'm looking at you Spoon, Req and Relm), because I honestly can't figure it out.

Because how people vote is important for working out people's alignments. Say person A votes for person B. B is lynched and turns up townie. This throws suspicion on A, and people want to know why they voted for B. Usually A will have to defend their reasoning, which gives clues as to whether or not they're mafia. If A says 'lol RNG vote', it's useless to the town. It offers no defence and you can't pick holes in it for clues. So it's perfect cover for the mafia to try and get someone lynched but have an excuse for it.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  SpoonMan Abrams X on Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:48 pm

vote Catterick

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  The Magician's Adviser on Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:51 pm

Well yeah, but that same reasoning applies just as much to those prejudiced votes. Nobody would look twice at Requiem putting the last vote on DF if she flipped townie, which was kinda SA's point. As I said before I'm glad you made the statement you did, because it prompted discussion which gives us somewhere to start, I disagree with the premise and feel that SA shouldn't hang just because he let RNG-sus take the wheel

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  The Magician's Adviser on Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:59 pm

Who there, sudden vote switch and no explanation?  I find this quite suspicious, but I'm reserving judgement.

For now FoS: Spoon(?)

I'm not convinced there isn't some sorta mind control power here and our good silverware friend isn't being framed, so I'm not about to kill him over it. However, I'm sure we'll all have a few questions the next day.

EDIT: Alternate theory, maybe Spoon was just busy and didn't have time to add the reasoning, because he didn't put unvote, or even capitalize anything.
EDIT EDIT: Nvm, he totes capitalized Catterick, but the no time thing is still valid

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Catterick on Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:19 pm

Just to let you know, I got back early, which is probably a good thing given Spoon's unexplained vote.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Quaetam on Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:30 pm

I'm posting this in a meeting I shouldn't be posting in a meeting...

Vote: SuicideAngel

Haven't had time to review posts and assess JGH - and I'm not sure I buy the Catterick lynch.

I'm not convinced of this but MAD's defense of him has been relentless, so that's solidifying the connection I suspected earlier.  Suicide could shed light on Advisor and maybe Smashbro - especially since Smash started the Catterwagon up this game, which I'm not sure I buy.  Better than a no-lynch.



Last edited by Quaetam on Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  SnakeInABox on Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:31 pm

Dayphase has ended! Send in your night actions, or wait until the writeup in a few hours.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  SnakeInABox on Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:05 am

The votes have been counted.

Quaetam: One Vote

Relmitos: One Vote

Avalanche: One Vote

Magicians Advisor: One Vote

Requiem: Two Votes

Catterick: Three Votes

Suicide Angel: Four Votes

JGH27: Five Votes

After intense debate, vehement discussion, and much namecalling, A decision was made. One by one they went into the bathroom stall of the Handicapped Restroom, and filled out their votes. Mr President, after counting the votes, exits the restroom and steps up to a podium slowly. Things didn't turn out the way they thought it would. But a vote was a vote.

"I call forth Jeremy, representative of the Coffee Party. The crowd has come to a consensus and they demand your blood." He beckoned the man in the back of the room to come forward, but instead he turned toward the exit and tried to run. Before he could take two steps the crowd had his arms and legs, he cried for them to let him go as they drug him towards the podium.

"Please. I'm not who you're looking for! I wanted to build new ideas, make better resolutions.. not bring back the old ways.. Please! I'm not here to hurt anyone, just sell a few votes, make a few friends. I'm just a lo-" *BANG*

JGH27 was killed. He was The Coffee Party, a Lobbyist!

He fell to the floor, additional voting slips that looked to have been attained legally by the Coffee Party slip out of his coat pocket across the floor in front of the crowd. Mr President dropped the gun he held and took a step back.

"I can't... Do this.. This isn't a kind of power I asked for... I should have the right to abuse this. We made the decision to run this government as a collective, and we will continue to do so through these dangerous times. We as a group will convene daily to elect a Secretary General, who will continue to lead us on this scum hunt." He nodded his head solemnly, then turned and walked out of the room into the sleeping chamber, ready to sleep through the night and start over again in the morning.

The President has abdicated, creating the new position of Secretary General; acknowledging that we, the people of the government, know what is best for our citizens.  Please note the following new rules:

Resolutions

Each nightphase, PM me the name of a player you wish to see become Secretary General.  At the start of the dayphase, I will publicly announce the new Secretary General.  

The Secretary General serves for one dayphase, and cannot be lynched or vote.  Their purpose: to propose a Resolution.  Resolutions are powerful proposals that will change the rules of the game.

In the first 24 hours of a dayphase, the Secretary General must propose one Resolution by posting Propose: <Resolution name> – if they do not propose a Resolution within this time, they will die.

Voting Rules

You now have one additional vote.  You can vote for a player to lynch, and vote for/against the Resolution. These rules determine voting unless your Role PM says otherwise.


You may use any number of your votes on the day’s Resolution in the following format: Resolution: Yea, or Resolution: Nay.  You cannot vote for both sides.

You may use any number of your votes on the Lynch, in the following format: Vote: Player (Just like normal!)


So, if you have three publicly listed votes, you may vote twice for the Resolution and once for the Lynch, or spend all three votes on the Resolution - you could also spend two votes on the Lynch, and one on the Resolution.

Powers or Resolutions may change the number of votes a player has available.  Your total number of votes – excluding secret votes, and obviously excluding powers – will be listed at the start of each dayphase.

Night 1 has begun.  Send me your votes for Secretary General and any power submissions!

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

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