MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Avalanche on Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:20 pm

I'm going to vote SuicideAngel for now to keep the ball rolling. Very few votes have been cast this dayphase and there was foul play during the last. Having too few votes on him might sabotage the lynching again. I might vote-switch later, depending on how this plays out.

Because I would like my suspicions of Raya to be known.

Not because of anything she has said or her voting record but because of how this is playing out and the underlying logic that doesn't seem to add up.

Becoming SG probably isn't an easy task but it helps if you are a well-known, active player. Q and Weldar are dead, Snake is hosting, so Raya becoming SG through sheer number of votes she has received is entirely possible. However, let us not forget that the mafia gets to vote too, which would be an easy 4 votes gained for any party they favor.

Now she managed to pick what is probably the least advantageous resolution for our town.

It might be an unintended goof because the rules for this game are a little different but this would be a mighty convenient course of action for the mafia to take.

This brings us too

SuicideAngel (3 votes)- Relmitos, Catterick, Avalanche
Raya (1 vote/unlynchable)- SuicideAngel
Yet to vote: everyone else

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Catterick on Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:54 pm

Definitely if SuicideAngel is lynched and flips town, Raya looks quite bad. And she's definitely devious enough to fake fudge this choice of resolution. Still, I think you're a little too wary of her Avalanche. Laughing

I'm more suspicious of the Magician's Advisor. He posts a lot but it's all kind of flip floppy, like its purpose is to divert the town by asking questions and making statements that aren't really relevant.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Relmitos on Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:18 pm

I wonder if the mafians are truly capable of voting their own into power like that though. It seems like if they were allowed we would have the same SG basically every day and would have the most useless of Resolutions picked every day. I'm willing to look past the one Raya picked this time due to a misunderstanding of the Resolution, but that will be something we need to keep in mind nor is that to say she is innocent. How useful the Resolution the SG is when it's picked, if the SG continually picks useless things that's probably a sign.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  DarkFalco on Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:12 pm

Can the same SG be voted in every day? I don't think Snake mentioned that in his post, which is something that would be good to know regardless so we don't waste votes trying to vote the same person again. If you can't vote the same one every day it would make it a lot harder for the mafia to abuse this. I agree though, we need to pay close attention to resolutions.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Requiem on Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:19 pm

Good evening mafia players! It is I your glorious and extremely tired co-player! Seriously though, sorry I haven't been active this phase, I've been crazy busy. That being said, I don't really have much of an opinion for what's going on. I don't really get what's happening I guess or something. I agree that it's odd that two extra votes (It is two right?) got put on JGH. It's less concerning that he ended as a Lobbyist. That being said, I'd like to ask why Suicide was being voted for in the first place, because I kinda missed that.

That aside, I have a suspicious feeling about TD, so without any other explanation beyond a feeling, I'm going to Vote: TD260

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  SuicideAngel on Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:57 pm

I don't think Raya being mafian should be in question - only the mafia got to discuss and plan once Snake announced the Secretary General position. We had no warning and couldn't coordinate a nomination the way they could. We shouldn't just ignore how much easier it was for them to get one of their number in power.
I really wanna emphasize how much the mafia really gains by saving me and making me their scapegoat: However it happened, JGH was killed Day 1 instead of me - that's one daykill. Both of us were innocent to their knowledge (We're still not 100% on what Lobbyist is) but if JGH died, they get this extra daykill today where I'm basically already dead. I'll gladly go down if it's necessary to drag Raya with me tomorrow, but I don't want to waste this opportunity to dig up more mafian scum.

Unvotes: Raya Because she's unlynchable today. Who am I voting for instead?

Votes: Avalanche

He was the first to jump onto Raya's vote yesterday and he's keeping this bandwagon on me today rolling, apparently just because there is one. I'm also wont to wonder why he seems to know how many Mafians there are - 4 votes is a very specific number, considering all the vote manipulation we've seen thus far. And suddenly he's distancing himself from Raya too - am I the only one getting red flags on this? I'm not as worried about him as I am of Raya, but everything he's done has fallen into a nice little coordination with her that seems too organized to be happenstance.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  The Magician's Adviser on Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:44 am

@SuicideAngel: Av probably said four becaude it would be a logical number of mafians given the total number of players, which is far from scummy.

@Catt: just because some topics aren't as big as others doesn't mean they aren't relevant.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Raya on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:43 am

Avalanche wrote:Becoming SG probably isn't an easy task but it helps if you are a well-known, active player. Q and Weldar are dead, Snake is hosting, so Raya becoming SG through sheer number of votes she has received is entirely possible. However, let us not forget that the mafia gets to vote too, which would be an easy 4 votes gained for any party they favor.

Now she managed to pick what is probably the least advantageous resolution for our town.

It might be an unintended goof because the rules for this game are a little different but this would be a mighty convenient course of action for the mafia to take.

Hey hey hey.

I chose that resolution because I thought it was best for the town. Snake's description was 'Everyone they interacted with for the past full cycle is revealed publicly', which to me implied that it meant every player that had contact with Q- ones he used his power on and ones who used their powers on him. This would give us a list of names, one of which was his killer. It was only after I'd chosen the resolution Snake informed me that it wasn't everyone who interacted with Q, it was everyone he used his power on. If I had known this beforehand I would have chosen a different one. I'm not happy about this, but it's GM ruling.

Regarding the mafia electing the SG, that's actually a very dangerous tactic. If the SG chooses a resolution that benefits the mafia they're going to be putting a massive target on their head. I can't talk about the other resolutions available, but if the mafia use some of them to their advantage people will kick up a stink and it will just draw suspicion. If I was mafia I could have chosen a useless one, but instead I chose one that I thought would reveal a mafian, only to have the GM tell me the resolution doesn't do as it's worded. That is not my fault, and I acted in the best interests of the town when choosing the resolution.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Minby_Aran on Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:46 am

I'm not totally on board with Raya's explanation, but it's the best we can get until someone else takes the position and we can glean a little more information about it.

I will say, as a devil's advocate, Raya and Q were easily the most likely two people to become SG, just because of how well they've played the game in the past, so her getting the spot with no Mafia influence isn't unheard of, but that's also probably what the mafia would hope people think, so IDK.

Req's vote seems really fishy to me, like it's either a vote control, or someone told him to vote for TD, and he didn't know how to justify it. There's at least a little bit of info out now, so I feel like votes can be based on more than just gut feeling, and for that reason, and to avoid being another useless no vote, I will Vote: Requiem

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Relmitos on Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:14 am

Req's vote does look a little weird, off the wall, and doesn't really make much sense, I will admit, but Td IS one of the people who still hasn't posted anything yet this phase. That list being TheTJ, Fed, Quote, Td and Smash. Spoon could technically be on this list as well, really. He's technically said something but it was nothing and hasn't said anything since.

Spoon, you should talk to us a bit buddy. I'd like to hear from you if you would. 

As far as Raya goes, I do understand her logic if we take it at face value, as if it worked as suggested it would reveal a mafia, but I can't help but wonder what all the other things are.

Going to drop a Vote: Smashbro here to do something with vote number 2. I'll check back in later.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  TD260 on Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:20 pm

Sorry guys, I'm probably going to be super quiet for the next few days. I've got literally 6 essays and 5 finals going on in a very short period of time. I'll try to drop in for what it's worth, but it probably won't be consistent.

I'll make a supplementary post later this evening with some analysis, but I just want to let you guys know that I'm here, I'm reading along, I'm just very very busy

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Raya on Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:42 pm

Relmitos wrote:Req's vote does look a little weird, off the wall, and doesn't really make much sense

Spoon's vote yesterday was off too, I wonder if someone has the power to control someone else's vote. I assume you can't admit you're being controlled, hence the no/nonsensical explanations.

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Spoiler:

FUCK YOU RAYA.

FUCK YOU

FUCK YOU

FUCK YOU

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FUCK YOU

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FUUUUUUCKKKKK YOOOOOUUUUU

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Requiem on Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:48 pm

Minby, it's like you don't know me at all. That hurts. Really though, if I was told to vote for TD, I'd've come up with a better excuse than that. I've always voted on my gut in the past. It's just how I am. I have a bad feeling about him. As for the randomness, I was exhausted. I'd spent the entire day working in the dust of my basement cleaning and doing plumbing work. Today I spent the first half freezing in a truck outside, and then the rest stuck in walmart dying of boredom (And still freezing). I only just got home. For what it's worth, I also have a bad feeling on Avalanche

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  TD260 on Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:10 pm

Alright, Analysis time.

Day 1 is basically a wash. Random votes, grudge votes, etc.

One of the few thoughts to go on is how Suicide put down a second vote on Avalanche and blamed it on RNG, which can be a scum tactic to cover the fact that they're voting for the town... but it's also a super silly mistake of him to make since it was within the first few hours of the game.

You could also point fingers at Raya, since she was immediately trying to shunt attention on an easy target.

HOWEVER. Given that JGH flipped a non-townie role, I think that this does shed some light on the rest of the votes.

Everything was basically a crapshoot until JGH showed up- and there, he starts attacking catterick for picking him amongst all the inactive players.

He tried to throw suspicion on suicide angel for being a "Stronger case" than he is. Or, rather, for being no weaker of a case.

And then, you have Spoonman who just shows up, dumps a vote on catterick, and leaves.  It's is interesting that once JGH starts throwing votes towards catterick another player shows up, votes for them with no explanation and leaves for parts unknown once more.

Since then, spoon has requested a better vote tally.

NOW. I would like to point out the fact that a Lobbyist, while not necessarily being a mafia position, does imply a group mentality. Maybe they're a cult. I don't know. I do, however, think that JGH was not the single member of the lobbyists, and Spoonman is his accomplice.

MOVING ON TO THE VOTING SEGMENT.

I don't know why, but I apparently have an extra vote? Not sure if that's a power or if that's someone else's thing or whatever, and I especially don't know how much I'm allowed to talk about it, but as far as I'm aware it's a single-time thing.

SO. VOTING TIME. I think that spoonman is guilty, or at least is allied with JGH in some fashion.
Vote: Spoonman

I ALSO think that we should figure out what's going on with Q. The background check might give us some more information to work with.

Vote: Yea to the Proposed Background Check

Since I've got one spare vote now, I guess I'll just chuck this one at spoon as well and see what sticks.
Bonus Vote: Spoonman

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Relmitos on Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:33 pm

So I still believe Suicide to be the best lynch of the day, as such going to drop my vote on Smashbro and replace it where it should be, vote: Suicide

I don't really like Td's post very much. Half of his logic behind his vote is simply "He voted with a guy who may or may not be scum" which could also be applied to Smashbro because Smash also put a vote on Catterick. Before JGH did, even, so are we going to claim that Smash is also a Lobbyist? Even still, people who are affiliated try to not look connected in any way. That would be an awful move on Spoon's part if he's also a lobbyist.

I wouldn't say JGH's logic against Catt wasn't that good either. Especially after Catt declined to answer part of JGH's reasoning. I've learned the hard way that ignoring parts of arguments, if people notice it, tends to look really bad on you. Catt's logic DID basically boil down to "Not going to vote on Suicide because he hasn't played in awhile, vote JGH"

Which is another point for lynching Suicide, really. Suicide flipping mafia wouldn't make Catt look very good. I would be hesitant to say Catt would be "Instant mafian" if Suicide flipped mafian because being real here it was the first day and there's not much to go off of, but it's something to keep in mind for the future.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Catterick on Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:33 am

Relmitos wrote:I wouldn't say JGH's logic against Catt wasn't that good either. Especially after Catt declined to answer part of JGH's reasoning. I've learned the hard way that ignoring parts of arguments, if people notice it, tends to look really bad on you. Catt's logic DID basically boil down to "Not going to vote on Suicide because he hasn't played in awhile, vote JGH"

Which is another point for lynching Suicide, really. Suicide flipping mafia wouldn't make Catt look very good. I would be hesitant to say Catt would be "Instant mafian" if Suicide flipped mafian because being real here it was the first day and there's not much to go off of, but it's something to keep in mind for the future.
It wasn't just that he hadn't played in 18 games, it was that the case to lynch him was simply that he made a RNG vote. On DAY 1. Not exactly hard evidence there. And really, Magician's Advisor was defending him a lot more then I did, if you think I was defending him at all.

Don't forget I put the first vote on Suicide this Day phase.

---
SuicideAngel (4 votes)- Relmitos (x2), Catterick, Avalanche
Avalanche (1) - SuicideAngel
TD260 (1) - Requiem
Requiem (1) - Minby_Aran
Spoonman (2) - TD260 (x2)
Yet to vote: everyone else

Resolution - Background Check on Quaetam
Yea (1) - TD260
Nay (0)

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Relmitos on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:39 am

I did say I wouldn't instantly call you mafian over just his flip. "He was defending a mafian" isn't always the best route to take because no one but cops and the mafia know who is and isn't mafia. I'd say there are people more worthy of a lynch then you right now.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Fedaykin on Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:22 am

First things first Resolution: Yea

We can't really doubt Raya over the resolution until somebody else has been GS and prove what she's been saying. Also for some reason I believe that Q would have been GS, but was killed and Raya had the second-most votes. This is pure speculation, I just want to see if I'm proven right after the game ends Razz

About the Lobbyist(s): I do believe, that ´lobbyst is the general nomiclature for 3rd parties. If you look at the opening post, the Mafia has something to do with the "Old Way", a lobbyist doesn't quite fit the description. Of course, this is just fluff speculation. Isn't the prime goal of a lobby to gain more and more influence over a goverment to get their will done? I'm not suspecting them to be a cult, not sure what their goal is, though. Maybe become GS?

Anyway, let's out some real meat on this post:

Suicide and his vote causing a bandwagon upon him. I'was part of this for a pretty silly reason and lack of time to work out something more constructive.

As Relm already ponted out, the apparent votes don't add up. For Jeremy to die, additional 2 votes were needed. If we suspect a doublevoter under the 3 people voting J, this still means we are missing one more vote. The case can be made of a hostile party/ies pulling a serious effort to get Suicide off the noose to protect a teammate who slipped early or setting him up for this dayphase. Knowing his affiliation would most likely give an insight on Raya. If Suicide is Mafia, Raya is most likely innocent/3rd party, unless she is pulling a Q. Basically I am rehashing what Avalanche has been saying, I agree with him on this.

Req is being Req, so far as I can tell. He goes after his gut feeling first, so he is being consistent. We probably need a few more flips before we can get better judgement on him.

Barda is being barda and doesn't know what is going on. Yet again, he is being consistent Razz Please try to speak your mind up, language barriers can be overcome(just think about Eisen)

Relm is being Relm, he contributes with sound arguments. Good to have you around, bro, you keep things rolling.

Raya is being aggressive. Basically she's like a dog who has sunk its teeth into wounded prey and won't focus on anything else until she got the kill. She's being very defensive about her choice for the resolution, which can't be really assessed until we have another person in her position.

Avalanche is on the same page as me on Suicide, other than that, he is arguing against Raya. In myopinion he's being helpful in keeping the discussion going, though I don't share his opinion on Raya.

Spoon voted and disappeared, never explaining why he did what he did. Suspicious, yes. Punishable by death? Not yet, at least. His flip basically sheds no light on anybody else.

TD, on the other hand, is doing his best to get him killed. If Suicide should flip Mafia, I'd say he's a good next option. He is going after someone with rather great effort, whose lynch brings not much information at the current point. This is not me letting Spoon off the hook for his behaviour, just putting his place a few notches back on the list.

I'll comment on the rest óf the players once I'm back home, I'm bringing my gf to the airport. Could be a bit later, sorry in advance.

Also Vote: SuicideAngel

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  SuicideAngel on Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:10 pm

Unvotes: Avalanche
Votes: Spoonman


Also I'd like to know when Relm put a second vote on me Catterick, I don't see it on this thread. Either you're wrong or you and Relm share a secret forum. I'm guessing the latter from the context of your post.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  SnakeInABox on Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:38 pm

Dayphase ends at 3:00 CT, about an hour and a half from now. I will be at work at that time, so anything sent in-thread after that point will not be counted. Dayphase writeup will come between 11-12 CT, feel free to send me your night actions and new Secretary General votes before then if you wish. Raya can not be voted for Secretary General two times in a row.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Avalanche on Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:55 pm

I love how Fedaykin points out he feels the same about me as he does about SuicideAngel, regarding bandwagons.... Then proceeds to join the bandwagon himself. Not pointing any guilty fingers (yet), just thought I'd point it out.

As for my suspicions regarding Raya, I merely pointed out that this is probably how it would play out had a mafia been given the role of SG. Because a mafian suggesting a pro-mafian proposition would paint a massive target on his/her head, they'd take an action that would be the least advantegous to the town, as is indeed what happened.
However, I am satisfied for now with the points Raya brought up. There were a few things I had not taken into consideration. With that in mind, I hope you understand me remaining naturally skeptical of everything and everyone. We've all been around the block enough to understand how deep mafian manipulation can go.

Also, if any of the non-voters logs on before Snake closes the dayphase, get your damn vote in. Only eight of the seventeen living players voted today and that is downright sad. Statistically, every mafian could be an inactive player and we would never know.

Before I forget

vote yes on resolution check Q's history


Edit: miscalculated. Hadn't added new votes to the record. We got 7 non-actives and Barda who voted no one.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  SnakeInABox on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:12 pm

It's ok. Finals held a few people back, I'm aware. Two dayphases in a row without voting is where I step in.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Relmitos on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:30 pm

SuicideAngel wrote:
Also I'd like to know when Relm put a second vote on me Catterick


Here:


Relmitos wrote:
With that in mind, I'll be dropping a Vote: Suicide here.


and:


Relmitos wrote:So I still believe Suicide to be the best lynch of the day, as such going to drop my vote on Smashbro and replace it where it should be, vote: Suicide


They were posted in the thread, I assure you.

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  The Magician's Adviser on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:51 pm

Resolution: Yea


Vote: Spoon


Partially to jolt him into action, partly to shake the double voters nest, see if it's worth it to them to save SA twice. I mean, they probably won't either way, but there's probably a limit to how much they can stuff the ballot box, so it'll be easier to tell if Spoon and SA are close in the polls.


Speaking of polls, we should talk about who should be our SG next dayphase. I personally would like to throw my hat in the ring, though it doesn't especially matter who we get as long as we work out who gets it (with the understanding that whoever gets he prestigious role tells us as much as they can without drawing SIAB's ire

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

Post  Smashy B on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:59 pm

If my math is right, the dayphase is ending soon. Sorry I haven't done shit today, work got hella busy for me after the person I was training under moved to a new department and left me arr arone.

I still need to read the long posts more in depth. I will say that I voted for Raya to be the SG during the night phase.

I vote Yea to the Resolution
And I vote: Suicide

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Re: MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

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