MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN

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Post  TheTJ on Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:02 am

OK, so looking back I'm seeing mostly votes for TD and Catt going around. TD's been more or less covered I think but I don't see why Catt seems like such a sure thing to you guys.

I mean, there are basically two possibilities with his roleclaim nonsense. Either he is being serious about that and Snake let him live anyway against the rules, or he was lying.... which was still against the rules and Snake would have had to let him live in this case too.

If he's honestly roleclaiming then Snake would have let him survive despite knowingly breaking the rules, and he would've outed himself as the bomb, more or less diffusing that threat. But this is also a desperation move he would have been making in order to try to save his own neck, which is certainly believable in the circumstances and sort of fits the image I have for him.

If it's a lie and he's mafia, it's possible he thought it wasn't against the rules, and there would be no chance for a counterclaim for anyone who did have the role. Claiming a bomb would be good way to explain avoiding death until late game, and the desperation thing is just as true as if he were townie. And Snake would be more likely to forgive him that than if it were a direct breaking of the rules...

Hrm, ok, so as a mafian what he did would make more sense than as a townie... I guess I convinced myself when laying it out like that.

Both Votes: Catt

Also, getting a "read" on someone is not the same as an in-depth analysis. Cold-reading is meeting someone and picking up general ideas about them and guessing, but there's nothing concrete (Unless you're Sherlock Holmes (Who, oh my god, would have made an amazing fake psychic why has that story not been done?))
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Post  Relmitos on Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:41 am

TheTJ wrote:OK, so looking back I'm seeing mostly votes for TD and Catt going around. TD's been more or less covered I think but I don't see why Catt seems like such a sure thing to you guys.

Did you not read my walls of text or something? That would be why I'm sure.
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Post  Minby_Aran on Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:07 pm

Ok, so I'm voting completely against my own interests of self preservation, because I have a feeling people are going to take Relm's lynch chart as gospel and seriously weaken the end of the game, but I just feel far more suspicious of Cat than TD, especially because a lot of my personal reason to be against TD were based on his early-game silence, which can be explained by real-life. So I'm going to Vote:Cat also partially because I think there's a chance you weren't modkilled because it was a fake roleclaim.
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Post  Relmitos on Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:56 pm

I'm going to trawl through the thread more to see if I should make modifications to that list, but if anyone wants to offer suggestions I'm willing to listen to it and debate about it if it has solid reasoning to it.
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Post  SnakeInABox on Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:39 pm

Dayphase ends at Midnight CT, that being 6 hours from now. Remember that you also have the option of voting on The Resolution.
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Post  TD260 on Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:41 pm

If you're not using a vote on the resolution, (Barda elected to form a group that can freely talk to one another instead of the suggested background check on myself) then use a vote on that. If you don't care about the resolution, use the second vote for lynches. Stating a single vote in the thread, I believe will only direct a single vote towards your target.
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Post  Avalanche on Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:51 am

Me finding out Raya was indeed innocent.

MAFIA GAME 29: THE RETURN - Page 11 Tumblr_inline_nnk3o1hK7x1qhcd12_500

So now I am not only not SG for life but I am wrong? This is the worst holiday ever.

Barda's resolution sounds like it has potential to do some good so I am voting:

Yes on the resolution

As for lynching, I have no ammo to really rock the boat right now, so shamefully joining the bandwagon. Maybe next dayphase will offer some change.

Vote: Catterick



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Post  Relmitos on Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:56 pm

By my count Catt is safely in the lead by a fairly large number of votes barring some shenanigans so I'll deposit my second vote on the resolution.


Resolution: Yea
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Post  SnakeInABox on Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:29 pm

Dayphase has ended!
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Post  SnakeInABox on Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:27 pm

Dayphase has ended!

-3 Votes: Spoonman

1 Vote: Levi

2 Votes: Requiem

11 Votes: Catterick

The group convened in the great Circular Office. It was a large office for the President, but a small meeting room for the entire team. Since the number had been cut down to almost half, now was as good a time as ever to utilize the smaller rooms of the building. Though the room wasn't huge, it cast an illusion of spaciousness by tearing out the wall behind the Presidential Desk and turning it into a window overlooking the front of the building. The sun shined in the large window, reflecting through the mirrors that lined the walls, eliminating any chance of casting shadows in the process. Though this time of year was usually quite chilly, today was unusually hot. Some began to sweat, others had taken off their jackets. One could claim that the change in weather might have been a cause for everyone's hotheadedness and irrationality, but they all knew that this had been building up for much longer than an afternoon. Arguments arose, and fingers were pointed in all directions. At least, it kind of looked that way because of all the mirrors. Really most of the fingers were pointed at just one person. Catterick approached the Secretary General, who had been sitting behind the Presidential Desk counting the votes, ready to accept his fate. The General starred hard at Catterick as he slowly stood up from his seat, and he nodded solemnly after placing a hand on the mans shoulder. The Secretary General leaned in close. "If he is mafian, he is not suffisently mafian for my power. If he is town, very bad town for throwing votes like breath. Please, keep warm à place for me, thé earth is at you knees." The man placed his free hand on cattericks other shoulder, and threw Catterick towards the window. He burst through the glass, falling a story onto the front steps of the Capitol Building. Though his neck snapped on impact, his body would continue to roll all the way down the many steps leaving a trail of blood behind him.

Catterick was killed! He was the Secretary of Defense, a member of the town!


As the party dispersed to take a break, vote for the next SG, and reconvene in a different section of the building, those that the last Secretary General had called to meet stayed behind to form their committee in private...

The Resolution has passed! It is now Night Phase, It will end Tuesday the 29th at 3 PM CT. Send in your votes for SG and your actions now!
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Post  SnakeInABox on Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:43 pm

Nightphase has ended!

Mr Vice President looked up through the shattered window. The sun bulged out of the sky, shimmering across the pieces of glass that lay scattered across the floor. Though it was just now setting, its size gave the illusion as though it were coming closer instead of going away. He shielded his eyes from the rays and squinted out, taking in the city that continued to thrive despite its proverbial head being whacked half off. He continued to survive not for himself, but for the people that depended on him to do his job and get it done well. After remembering what he was there for, Mr Vice President straightened his tie, closed the curtains, and left the office to join his fellow politicians for the next round of debate. The group was meeting in the Theatre this time, for seemingly no reason in particular. Sometimes he felt as though they were only changing rooms after each discussion to subtly change the setting and tone and keep things from getting boring, but given everything that was happening to them all at the moment he decided to stop overthinking things and ignore those silly thoughts. He continued into the large room just as the final vote for Secretary General had been counted. "Nice of you to join us, Mr. President." The new judge said as he set the box down. "Your timing is impeccable. I was just about to announce that our new Secretary General is Avalanche!"

Dayphase has now started! It will end January 2nd at 12:00 AM, that's the end of the 1st for anyone confused.
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Post  Fedaykin on Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:33 am

Mafia failed to kill, that's awesome, bought us some much needed time. This is going to be a short post, need to do some shopping.

Anyway: i looked back the last couple of days, whenever there were votes on td, they got deflected to somebody else. There are some shenanigans going on here and I want to know what it is. The other shenanigans, Avalanche. How the hell has he been elected a second time? I seriously expected Relm. Let's see if he tries to push the enigma resolution again.

Also, people were promoted in the fluff. Wonder if they inherited the powers of their predecessors, but that question is probably going to be left unanswered.

So, I would like to vote td, but it doesn't seem to be the best course of action. Your thoughts?
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Post  Requiem on Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:58 am

*Points At TD Aggressively* Vote: TDx2

Also, way to lynch Catterick guys. Way to go.
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Post  barda_ehmos on Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:24 pm

i've some things to say.

I'm enjoying about avalanche about to be the new SG and hope about his choice for the resolution.
Like i said, i want the committee completely transparent about what we want to do with the committee.
That's why, by texting here, i push, gently, Avalanche to choose the resolution for let everyone know what is said on the committee.

Fedaykin, ok this is cool to don't a nightkill for a night, but why that don't come early, we loose great peoples before, i can't be happy until the killer are stopped.
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Post  Fedaykin on Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:39 pm

@Req: wait with the votes, i don't believe that TD can be lynched that easily. Look at the past dayphases, every time he got voted, the votes were deflected onto someone else at the end of the day. I still would like to see D3 updated, there is no votecount for that one.
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Post  TD260 on Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:04 pm

Req, you and your gut feelings can go swing in the wind and if you keep pointing that finger in my face im going to bite it off. I'm willing to believe you're town, but I think is dumb as hell that your "gut" has essentially distracted the town for 3 goddamn days trying to lynch me when I'm innocent.

Catterick was a townie, and I was mistaken in my read on him

But at least I based it off of his actions.

As for vote shenanigans, I can assure you that I am not the one behind this.

As for other players...

I'm pretty sure avalanche is a lobbyist. I almost wanna say that barda and min by are as well, but I'm not totally sure. I think the lobbyists get powers from being the SG. this is mostly speculation based on the role of a lobbyist so I guess it's Meta knowledge but what the fuck ever. No idea if they're 3rd party cult or 3rd party town aligned though.

I trust relm, because he trusted me.

I'm really not sure how to take levi, he's riding the borderline between scum and clean to me.

Fed is playing in a similar style to the last time he was a mafia but I'm not willing to throw out accusations based on that.

Right now I'm kinda just dumping any thoughts I've had since the start of the game in case I do end up getting lynched today, maybe the town can still live for a phase.
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Post  Relmitos on Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:10 pm

Requiem wrote:Also, way to lynch Catterick guys. Way to go.

Let's not pretend like you put serious effort into getting us not to lynch him. All you said was "I believe his claim" and "I don't think he's mafia, but I don't trust him", more or less. Didn't REALLY put forth effort there.

Fedaykin wrote:@Req: wait with the votes, i don't believe that TD can be lynched that easily. Look at the past dayphases, every time he got voted, the votes were deflected onto someone else at the end of the day. I still would like to see D3 updated, there is no votecount for that one.


I believe that it would be unwise to attempt to hang Td today, that much I agree with. I can't really explain what happened last phase, but the thing that swapped Spoon's votes with Smash's and Td's votes with Minby's appears to be an "Every other day only" power, or else whoever has it would have complete lynch immunity. Being as he was next on the noose after Catt, it's likely he's the vote misdirect target again.
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Post  Fedaykin on Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:20 am

TD260 wrote:As for vote shenanigans, I can assure you that I am not the one behind this.

They happen everytime you get voted, but you're not behind it? I'm not buying it, one bit. If Req stays on TD, at least we can have a final proof. Big if, though.

So Relm, according to your flowchart, Minby should be next. Are you still up for that?
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Post  Avalanche on Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:43 am

Alright, not gonna lie.... I am just as confused as you are that I am SG again.

I am still working out what resolution to pick because I want to do this right. We need a win for the town this dayphase. Lynching another innocent will put us at 8 players next dayphase, 3 of which are probably mafian.

Taking this into consideration, it becomes more and more likely that a mafian will claim the role of SG next dayphase. All they have to do is pile on their votes on one of their own next nightphase and take a victory lap. At this point in the game, there is very little risk involved that would prevent them from doing so. Maybe its better to pick the lesser of two evils and go with the Enigma resolution.

That being said, I am awaiting a response from Snake about whether or not my proposed resolution is allowed. In the meantime, I am open to suggestions from the town. Let's see if we can crowdsource this.

And please do remember to vote on the resolution this dayphase. Last dayphase, people kind of ignored Barda's resolution. Not gonna lie, that felt awfully fishy, especially since it was a fairly useful proposal.
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Post  Relmitos on Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:20 am

Fedaykin wrote:
TD260 wrote:As for vote shenanigans, I can assure you that I am not the one behind this.

They happen everytime you get voted, but you're not behind it? I'm not buying it, one bit. If Req stays on TD, at least we can have a final proof. Big if, though.

So Relm, according to your flowchart, Minby should be next. Are you still up for that?


Not really, no. My theories on Minby aren't very strong without a Td flip before hand. Currently for all intents and purposes my flow chart has been rendered bunk and needs to be rethought anyway.

My thoughts right now aren't incredibly strong on anyone in particular, but as of right now, the people I trust are, in no particular order:

Spoonman, Fedaykin, Levi, and Barda.


That leaves TheTJ, Requiem, Minby, Td260, and Avalanche in the "maybe, maybe not" column.

Out of this, my reasonings on each are:

TheTJ really hasn't been doing all that much this game, at all. Period. Out of all the votes throughout the phases we've had, he's used......4 of them. That's not "He's voted 4 days", that's "He's used 4 votes out of the 10 he's had available" if my math isn't wrong. Levi has posted more then he has, and Levi has been in the game for only a couple day phases now. There's laying low, then there's whatever it is TheTJ is doing. The thing that makes me really look at him funny though, even with the above in mind, was him showing up out of no where to further hammer the Catterick lynch with a LOT of text that was just circular logic that ultimately didn't seem to amount to much to fill up his post. Essentially it was just easily jumping on the bandwagon and riding it to the end. A number of people did similar, granted, but TheTJ's stuck out to me. The way he did it really seemed like trying to get in a bandwagon vote without seeming that bandwagony.

Requiem I mostly find odd due to his insistence on hanging Td on that gut feeling of his. I've already harped on this though, don't feel that much of a need to go into detail on this when it's already been stated.

Td260, I will not support a lynch of this phase. I have reason to believe that whoever has the vote misdirect ability, let's call it, has very likely used it on Td. I'll not be a part of a misdirected lynch if I have a say in it, especially when there's no way to tell who it got misdirected onto. My thoughts on Td I've stated earlier, as with Req. Since then the basis on which I trusted him in the first place has proven to be, shall we say, proven false by virtue of Catt's flip.

Minby, my main theories on him have mostly been generated by things that Td has said, actually. That is why I'm not to serious about lynching him without a Td flip. The things in particular being:

TD260 wrote:Minby, on the other hand, seems kinda corrupt.

and next day phase he said

TD260 wrote:I actually think Minby is one of the Lobbyists as a potential third party. A lot of the other inconsistencies with his actions can be attributed to playstyle.

I see it like this. When Td said the first thing, he was more or less a sure "Going to be hung" target at that point. From this same post he said a few things that made me think he was really trying to soft claim cop. I more or less tried to get him to tell me his targets so I could get a firmer handle on if he was cop or not. That little plan was foiled by Snake. That said, I think Td picked up that I was thinking he was cop and I'd try to get Minby hung because he initially said he was corrupt. Afterwards he switched his claim to "I think he's third party guys" without much explanation and hasn't really expanded on that any as to why he would think that. In short, I think when he said that Minby was corrupt, he was counting on flipping mafia and saying Minby was corrupt to make us think "Oh, Minby's probably town since Td was trying to finger him." while simultaneously saying "Spoon is innocent." to make us think the opposite. The only thing that makes me question that theory that Minby would be mafia if Td is mafia is when Minby said

Minby_Aran wrote:In terms of both TD and Cat, if the town were to agree that they are the best two lynch targets, I'd actually say to leave Cat for another day, because his activity an flails in his death throws may give us more targets than TDs stoic silence.

If both Minby and Td are mafia, that would imply that Minby was suggesting we hang a mafian over a townie. Bussing to make himself look better? Perhaps. I could see it.

In a nutshell, that's mostly why I'm hesitant to hang Minby first.

Avalanche I consider strange simply because of that first resolution he proposed. It's a fairly moot point for this phase however since he can't be hung.

At the moment I think I would support a TheTJ lynch the most. I'm not feeling very strongly about Req at the moment, Td I feel would be a terrible idea to hang due to very likely vote misdirection that would get someone not him hung, all of my thoughts on Minby basically require Td to be mafia first, and Avalanche just can't be hung. Don't think I'd hunt him down anyway.
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Post  TD260 on Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:52 am

Avalanche wrote:Alright, not gonna lie.... I am just as confused as you are that I am SG again.

I am still working out what resolution to pick because I want to do this right. We need a win for the town this dayphase. Lynching another innocent will put us at 8 players next dayphase, 3 of which are probably mafian.

Taking this into consideration, it becomes more and more likely that a mafian will claim the role of SG next dayphase. All they have to do is pile on their votes on one of their own next nightphase and take a victory lap. At this point in the game, there is very little risk involved that would prevent them from doing so. Maybe its better to pick the lesser of two evils and go with the Enigma resolution.

That being said, I am awaiting a response from Snake about whether or not my proposed resolution is allowed. In the meantime, I am open to suggestions from the town. Let's see if we can crowdsource this.

And please do remember to vote on the resolution this dayphase. Last dayphase, people kind of ignored Barda's resolution. Not gonna lie, that felt awfully fishy, especially since it was a fairly useful proposal.

I mean if people still want to know interactions there's always the background check on myself.
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Post  Minby_Aran on Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:26 pm

Relm makes a good point on TJ being non-existent so far. I'm holding my votes to see what the resolution is, and if TJ comes into the thread to comment.

In terms of TD and I being linked, normally I'd accuse you of "reality bias" because we've been linked in previous games just for knowing each other in real life, but this game, I admit, we've had a few comments about each other that could make that reasonable, mostly TD being insistent that I'm either Mafia or Third Party. The vote switching from him is highly suspect to me, but it seems that Relm feels very strongly that it has been used on him again, and there are somewhat obvious reasons to believe him, so I'll follow him on that.
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Post  Requiem on Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:48 pm

So, I guess I can see the wisdom of not Voting TD right now. I'm not happy about it, but I'll accept it. Unvote And yeah, I didn't push for saving Catterick. I've got enough people thinking I'm scum, and while yeah, I probably would've been fine dying, you all would've just killed Catterick the next day anyway, and we'd be further screwed. That being said, I don't trust Relm enough to follow his push on TJ. I'm getting more and more worried that he's using the activity and stuff to clip off the last few town members. Unfortunately, this also means I'm not super comfortable following any votes, at least for the moment.
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Post  Leviwulf on Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:18 pm

I know this is hardly a reply but it's New Years Eve and I've been busy but I would like everyone to take a closer look at Abrams / Give me the reason everyone is so convinced he's town? TD has been very incessant about protecting him and from what I've seen our only reason to not suspect him is because of his power which doesn't make sense as a town power (You secretly vote AGAINST what your public opinion is stated to be) and the sudden push on him Day2 which could easily have been town driven, and if we believe it wasn't then why aren't we taking a closer look at the people who voted him in that push.
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Post  Relmitos on Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:49 pm

Wait, wait, wait. Really Req? Don't trust me, fine. Give your reasons for not trusting me, fine, but the whole not giving suggestions for other targets thing alongside of it? Surely you realize there has to be more then just 2 mafians. Game is NOT very likely to end when/if Td flips mafian. You really should not just sit there, tell me you don't trust me(While still trusting my logic enough to not chase a Td lynch, oddly), then not even attempt to explore other options.

Leviwulf wrote:I know this is hardly a reply but it's New Years Eve and I've been busy but I would like everyone to take a closer look at Abrams / Give me the reason everyone is so convinced he's town?

Mostly by what was said in the committee, really. Unless I'm being played by both Barda and Spoon, which I guess is a possibility.

Leviwulf wrote:TD has been very incessant about protecting him and from what I've seen our only reason to not suspect him is because of his power which doesn't make sense as a town power (You secretly vote AGAINST what your public opinion is stated to be) and the sudden push on him Day2 which could easily have been town driven, and if we believe it wasn't then why aren't we taking a closer look at the people who voted him in that push.

I would be attempting to hang Td this phase actually, if I didn't have reason to believe I would be hanging someone else entirely due to vote misdirection. Again. TheTJ's inactivity would basically guarantee there's no vote misdirection on him as people weren't even thinking about him at the time. I will point out that Td actually is the one that started the ball rolling for the Spoon lynch D2, so we aren't actually ignoring the people who pushed the Spoon lynch. Td is also the only one still alive that voted on Spoon D2, so we can't actually look at anyone else on that list.


Just to get this started, Vote: TheTJ. Saving my other vote to see what the Resolution is.
Relmitos
Relmitos
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